ESE's works engine tuner

[Haufen]

Luc, as said before by more than one person: it should be really easy for you to stop all this negativity regarding the Ryger.

Just make a public dyno fest at a third party dyno, open for everybody to attend if he or she wants to. Add to that some food, some beverages, maybe some music or even live coverage on the internet, maybe a piece of closed road for back to back test drives etc. And then test your engine against a KZ engine back to back, enjoy the result of 65 against 45 ponies in your favor, lean back with a big smile, open a beer and wait for the apologies and engine orders to overwhelm you.

Sounds really nice and easy, wouldn't it? So why don't you do it? My personal thinking is that you simply can't. And I wish you all the best that one day you will be able to. But until then, please try to view this Ryger thing from our perspective and do not get back to us until you have information that would be sufficient to convince yourself if you were not involved in the project.

Thanks.

[jamathi]

Luc, as said before by more than one person: it should be really easy for you to stop all this negativity regarding the Ryger.

Just make a public dyno fest at a third party dyno, open for everybody to attend if he or she wants to. Add to that some food, some beverages, maybe some music or even live coverage on the internet, maybe a piece of closed road for back to back test drives etc. And then test your engine against a KZ engine back to back, enjoy the result of 65 against 45 ponies in your favor, lean back with a big smile, open a beer and wait for the apologies and engine orders to overwhelm you.

Sounds really nice and easy, wouldn't it? So why don't you do it? My personal thinking is that you simply can't. And I wish you all the best that one day you will be able to. But until then, please try to view this Ryger thing from our perspective and do not get back to us until you have information that would be sufficient to convince yourself if you were not involved in the project.

Thanks.

Thanks Haufen, I could not agree more! Nothing more needs to be said! But the power is not really there, and I think this project will end on the scrapheap....

[lucf]

Lucf,
i would imagine that you too are unable to speak openly about this engine due to legal implications which must be really frustrating for you as well as those who are interested. Its been such a long time since this engine was first spoken about, with great anticipation , many people have waited for how the engine works. Im sure i remember a statement about this being a design not for the big companies but for the 2 stroke community in general..... Thing is, governments bringing in laws which will eventually kill the 2 stroke/ 4 stroke whether it runs clean or not and industry which controls what we buy, now focusing on electrically operated engines time is running ever shorter. Cant Mr Ryger himself speak openly about his engine? whats holding him back?
regards, breezy

Yes Breezy, You are right, but we can't give a sign to start if not everthing is 100% right. And that is what takes a long time.
And mr Ryger has no time to write here, because he has to use his time to made the Ryger production ready for selling all over the world, after publication.
He made longer days than everyone and I know.

Regards,
Luc

[lucf]

Thanks Luc for your open words, yes this is very complex and after 3 month testing, sometimes, thought would be so nice return to std. engine.

Yesterday tested again:

Modified intake plate, cut hole for C port, and power was the best of all tests like ( 4-5 hp plus ) , but suddenly, when changing gear - BANG . Stopped, no compression, but easy rotating. Amazing, that happen at the same place where first piston seize in April. This time piston ring break down . So ......

Yes Katinas, it is not so easy as many people think. We have faced also many problems.
Most people we know, who have tried till sofar has stopped the attempt.

Sorry I can't be more open !!

Regards,
Luc

[lucf]

First Ryger trackrecord verified by Eefde: http://kartingeefde.nl/karten

Next step: winning race
Next step: publication

Regards, Luc

[Vannik]

Yesterday tested again:

Modified intake plate, cut hole for C port, and power was the best of all tests like ( 4-5 hp plus ) , but suddenly, when changing gear - BANG . Stopped, no compression, but easy rotating. Amazing, that happen at the same place where first piston seize in April. This time piston ring break down . So ......

Katinas,

In simulation of what I think the Ryger is it seems to need a much stiffer reed valve petal. Typically 0.20 to 0.25mm thicker than what is typical for a 125cc engine (0.40mm glass fiber), so use 0.60 to 0.65mm. Just a suggestion. And it does not seem sensitive to a tuned pipe.

Vannik

[katinas]

Katinas,

In simulation of what I think the Ryger is it seems to need a much stiffer reed valve petal. Typically 0.20 to 0.25mm thicker than what is typical for a 125cc engine (0.40mm glass fiber), so use 0.60 to 0.65mm. Just a suggestion. And it does not seem sensitive to a tuned pipe.

Vannik

Thanks very much Vannik, when I read this, just remember what I forgot to tell.
When start tests with Rygerised Honda Cr 125 86 cylinder with 6 petal cage, first install original carbon reeds and stoppers from Cr 125 2006, and later install glass fiber reeds and stoppers from Cr 125 1986. Reeds nearly same thick ( 0,43 mm), but stoppers very different shape with rubberized surface without holes. When open with finger it feels stiffer than 2006.
On the road from 9000 rpm I feel new power kick, and from that point until yesterday not experimenting with other reed petal.
And now, after failure with ring, I can try thicker reed just when made new piston and head.
I always testing all two strokers on the same 3 km road section deep in the forest, about 20 years, so sensations about power are sharp. But I have one rule, never compare day and evening tests results, because evening forest oxygen is fantastic thing....

[katinas]

Remember one test with first piston and Rygerised Ns 250 cylinder with sleeve from my racing days.

Raised boost windows, halfway between Ex open and main transfers open. Started and it feels very different, something very reactive, and little more revs.
Outside was cold April rain, so I cant test on road and decide to rise even more, just 1 mm after Ex open. Started it and immediately feel engine laziness. It revs, but not fast as before. On the road was slow acceleration with terrible noise. But maybe without pipe would be different. So feel sorry, that not tested with with halfway boost.
Piston in photo from std. engine, just for better view

[Jannem]

They say the second thing to go is the memory, and I can't remember what the first thing was.

I still remember. It's the eyesight.

The eye extensions double up as protection from chips fortunately and you never forget them... However, sticking your head up close to see when grinding miniature cast iron pot leads to some intersting findings later if you forget the respiratory mask. As you say, the memory is the next.

Now, where did I put down that grinder??

[Haufen]

I always testing all two strokers on the same 3 km road section deep in the forest, about 20 years, so sensations about power are sharp.

Sounds to me like you are the ideal candidate to use one of the freeware road dynos available on the net. Some even allow for temperature and ambient pressure correction, which gives results almost as accurate and repeatable as a real dyno (once the vehicle has been calibrated, otherwise it's just qualitative, but nevertheless repeatable). This way, you (and we) could gain much more insight about the effect of your engine modifications. The electronics needed are not really complicated and can be bought / modified for cheap and rather quickly as far as I remember.

What do you think? If you're interested, I am sure someone around here can provide a link and / or documentation of such a system.

[peewee]

hey guys im making the swingarm longer by 5". im not much experience in structure design but heres my idea. i was thinking on all seams to be welded, ill chamfer the edges to a V, then put a root pass with about 120hz and medium size filler. then a pass over the top at 60hz and large size filler. what do you think ?

[Haufen]

hey guys im making the swingarm longer by 5". im not much experience in structure design but heres my idea. i was thinking on all seams to be welded, ill chamfer the edges to a V, then put a root pass with about 120hz and medium size filler. then a pass over the top at 60hz and large size filler. what do you think ?

I like to be on the safe side with things like that, so I would do the elongation piece more or less as described by you, but I would never do that without an inner part which reaches at least 10cm / 4 in into both sides of the original swingarm (shape the same as the swingarm, only a bit smaller so that it just fits in). This inner piece would then be welded to the original parts at about 3 inches inside (2x 10mm holes into the original part only) and at the junction of the original part and the elongational part you would make a V where at the ground of the vee you could see the inner part. Then weld everything together taking care that the parts do not distort too much.

[peewee]

I like to be on the safe side with things like that, so I would do the elongation piece more or less as described by you, but I would never do that without an inner part which reaches at least 10cm / 4 in into both sides of the original swingarm (shape the same as the swingarm, only a bit smaller so that it just fits in). This inner piece would then be welded to the original parts at about 3 inches inside (2x 10mm holes into the original part only) and at the junction of the original part and the elongational part you would make a V where at the ground of the vee you could see the inner part. Then weld everything together taking care that the parts do not distort too much.

yes the extension piece will insert 2" into the existing swingarm at each end. I figure that is plenty strong as the bike isn't for motox but just drag racing with no jumps. I could make it insert 3" as I haven't yet machined the extension

I see what your saying about the holes. drill holes through the existing arm and weld the extension piece to the swingarm via the holes

[WilDun]

A true enthusiast like Katinas doesn't need external equipment to figure out what is right, wrong, good or bad! and he has a good internal hard drive in his head to draw his info from......but what will happen to all that precious info when (if) the hard drive packs up? - our loss!

[oldjohnno]

Sounds to me like you are the ideal candidate to use one of the freeware road dynos available on the net. Some even allow for temperature and ambient pressure correction, which gives results almost as accurate and repeatable as a real dyno (once the vehicle has been calibrated, otherwise it's just qualitative, but nevertheless repeatable). This way, you (and we) could gain much more insight about the effect of your engine modifications. The electronics needed are not really complicated and can be bought / modified for cheap and rather quickly as far as I remember.

What do you think? If you're interested, I am sure someone around here can provide a link and / or documentation of such a system.

Trouble is there is a wide variety in the size of horses and this requires the use of correction factors, eg:

Actual dragstrip verified horsepower = 1:1
American horsepower = hp x 1.25
Pub horsepower (<5 beers) = hp x 1.5
Pub horsepower (>5 beers) = hp x 3
Magazine project bike horsepower = hp x 1.3
Ryger horsepower = ????????