ESE's works engine tuner

[TZ350]

Uninformed question time. Will a blower on a two stroke make the chamber largely redundant?

No.......The way I see it, all the the chambers features are still important........its just every thing happens at a higher ambient air pressure........although there probably needs to be some adjustment to the chambers design..........it's interesting, we might look into it some more one day with the view of building one.

Instead of the normal atmospheric 14psi, with say 10psi turbo boost the ambient air pressure the motor sees is now 24psi and the engine thinks its died and gone to heaven.

These turbo strokers and the Kriedler that someone mistakenly thought was turbocharged but is actually supercharged some other way, they all have chambers.......

[gatch]

No.......The way I see it, all the the chambers features are still important........its just every thing happens at a higher ambient air pressure........although there probably needs to be some adjustment to the chambers design..........it's interesting, we might look into it some more one day.

Instead of the normal atmospheric 14psi, with say 10psi turbo boost the ambient air pressure the motor sees is now 24psi and the engine thinks its died and gone to heaven.

See the size of the pipe on that bike ! It's like a washing machine drum !!

[TZ350]

See the size of the pipe on that bike ! It's like a washing machine drum !!

Do you see that it is also a two into one? the normally aspirated two in one's that I have heard made the strangest sound..........

[TZ350]

Its having the exhaust gas turbine on the driving end to spin it, that defines a centrifugal air pump as a turbocharger, not the fact it has a centrifugal impeller.

Picture one is an Abgasturbolader (German for exhaust gas turbocharger), you can clearly see the centrifugal (or radial) compressor impeller on the left and the exhaust gas turbine on the right. Which is what defines this Kompressor as a turbocharger.

Earlier I was quite surprised to have someone who never seems to miss an opportunity to let me know how knowledgeable and experienced they are, offer me the argument that a turbocharged Mercedes which has a Kompressor badge on the boot was some kind of proof that a motorcycle also labeled Kompressor would have to be turbocharged too.

Kompressor only means supercharged, were they stupid, desperate or only hoping I was stupider than them, fat chance.

Picture two is a schematic of how the turbocharger works supercharging the motor.

Picture three is not a turbocharger, it is a centrifugal (or radial) compressor used as a supercharger and is usually driven directly by the motor.

[sonic_v]

The mercedes with the kompressor badge use a roots type supercharger manufactured by eaton.

http://www.eaton.com/EatonCom/Produc...rchargers/M45/

The m45 supercharger is used on the i4 engines of less than 2.3 litre capacity. This same supercharger was used for a while on the BMW made mini coopers but they now use a turbo. This particular supercharger can be found very cheaply on ebay .

[Brian d marge]

Some more about the Honda four cylinder V8........ the full story can be read here:- http://world.honda.com/history/chall...9pistonengine/

I was at Honda back in those days , remember that coming out , Rode one many years later here in Japan , had ring issues and were F%&&7 expensive

Nice lead balloon

Stephen

[TZ350]

Ever seen a Mercedes with a Kompressor badge on the boot?

I assure you Turbo charged…………...

The mercedes with the kompressor badge use a roots type supercharger manufactured by eaton.

http://www.eaton.com/EatonCom/Produc...rchargers/M45/

The m45 supercharger is used on the i4 engines of less than 2.3 litre capacity. This same supercharger was used for a while on the BMW made mini coopers but they now use a turbo. This particular supercharger can be found very cheaply on ebay .

To be fair to him, I did try to research it on the net at the time and turned up a turboed Merc, but I guess its true then, as he says, "the net is not always right".

So my friend was wide of the mark.....……..figures.

[Yow Ling]

What do the numbers 14/71 refer to ? You see it all the time, 6/71, 8/71 etc.

What the deuce does it mean !!

4/71 is a detroit diesel with 4 71 cubic inch cylinders
6/71 has 6 71 cu inch cyls
6v53 is a V6 with 53 cu inch clys

the also make 1/71 2/71 3/71 4/53 8/71 16/71 amd also a range of 90 something cylinders

engines marked with a T at the end are turbocharged eg 4/53T

[SS90]

Please continue Teezee.........

I am just happy that you did not claim poor old Thomas "knew all this already."

And if you say that "no one had ever turbo'd a two stroke before the 90's" often enough, you will eventually believe it yourself.

There is a guy not 30 kilometers from me who has a turbo 2 stroke single that he made in " the mid 70's"

I am not sure how it went, or if it goes now.

I am not trying to stop you Teezee, quite the opposite actually, many Bucket racers in NZ have talked about it (has anyone done it???? I don't know, someone must know), but I have never seen one in NZ...... Seen plenty in Europe though, ranging from 210cc Vespa's and 50cc "twist and go scooters" to classic works racers up to modified Aprilia RS250's and so on.

I would go so far to suggest that pretty much every Factory in Europe had at least a prototype at some stage, and the only reason that they didn't continue was that forced induction was banned.

As an aside, there is a good chance by my reckoning that your Plenum could work ( with out a reed valve) simply by reducing the volume of the Plenum, as I have theorised before, the problem seems to be a weakened signal at the main jet/slide needle orifice..... Just like when you "over carb" an engine.

I was hoping you could at least prove the merit of the Plenum. Just getting it to carburate correctly would be a start, and simply increase the plenum volume gradually.

[bucketracer]

And if you say that "no one had ever turbo'd a two stroke before the 90's" often enough, you will eventually believe it yourself.

Like the magical turbo Kriedler you claim existed in the 50's but you can't back up.

I bet you can't show where TeeZee said "no one had ever turbo'd a two stroke before the 90's".

A "Turbo Charged" MZ 2-stroke motorcycle in the 50's, I don't think so, but if there was one I would like to know more..........

Isn't that what he actuall said........... and later explained way he thought so.

I am sure he would be happy, even excited to know there were, if they existed like you say there must be some pics.....post one or two up....

And he has posted a few pictures of what a Abgasturbolader (exhaust gas turbocharger) actually looks like, so you might know what your looking for.

And TeeZee is right about another thing, engaging with you realy is a time waster........ fun though...

[SS90]

I bet you can't show where TeeZee said "no one had ever turbo'd a two stroke before the 90's".



Isn't this what he said...........

And has posted a few pictures of what a Abgasturbolader (exhaust gas turbocharger) actually looks like, so you might know what your talking about next time.

Uh huh.... So Abgasturbolader actually means Waste gas turbo loader ( I could go into a German language lesson, but I feel that is unnecessary, and just arguing over semantics.... The word for turbo in German is actually much longer, and is only that short for ease of typing)

Would you then say that if an abgasturbolader Is a "turbo run off exhaust gasses", then is there another type of turbo, that is Not run off exhaust gasses?

Otherwise, why would the inventors of the thing define a "turbo run off waste gas".... Is there another type of turbo? .....I.e one that is powered off something other than "waste gas"?

I realise that this is something that you like to do, ( waste time with childish nonsense) but it may be wise not to get into an argument with me over a language you know sweet fa about.

[bucketracer]

Please..............of course we know sweet fa about the German language, but we were able to figure out enough to know you were wrong and worse trying to confuse things to cover up your embarrassment. And now you are trying to distract us again by making it an argeument about language.........

So like the magical turbo Kriedler you claim existed in the 50's but you can't back your statment up.

I bet you can't show where TeeZee said "no one had ever turbo'd a two stroke before the 90's"......its just a little fib of yours, as he didn't did he..........

Should we now be just disregarding all of your posts as nonsense..........

[F5 Dave]

The mercedes with the kompressor badge use a roots type supercharger manufactured by eaton.
. . . .

Yes yes yes, all very well. But where was the badge made?

[gatch]

Would you then say that if an abgasturbolader Is a "turbo run off exhaust gasses", then is there another type of turbo, that is Not run off exhaust gasses?

Otherwise, why would the inventors of the thing define a "turbo run off waste gas".... Is there another type of turbo? .....I.e one that is powered off something other than "waste gas"?

Semantics..

If I was to ask you for a cold chisel, would you assume I have a hot one lurking in my tool box as well ?

Given that the word turbo is just a short version of turbine, IE the part the exhaust gases are actuating, then no, I doubt there is another kind of turbo as far as car engines go.

GTE's, windmills, hydro generators etc are all based on turbines but are not (commonly) linked to cars/bikes.

Moral of the story is, stop blowing hot air, your fuel air mix is too lean, keep running this boost pressure and you just might detonate.

[Yow Ling]

there are several reasons why turbochargers werent suitable for bikes untill the 70s or 80s
the metalurgy to make a small very highspeed turbine reliable at the speeds and temperatures required, a small turb like a IHI rhb 3 runs at aprox 150,000 rpm at around 1000 to 1200 degrees c.
most turbs available pre 1970 were for diesel engines which run much lower egts, also theywernt fitted with mechanical face seals as compressors were never subjucted to negative pressures that are experienced in petrol engines using suck through carburetion.
Turbochargers that were available were sized for 2l and larger engines and required significant exhaust heat and flow to spool up.
I doubt there were any turbo bikes in the 40s or 50s, however there was alot of work done in positive displacment supercharging by all the european manufacturers including dkw, bmw, puch, nsu, cz. this included vane , piston ,and rootes type blowers. The mercedes badges are probably made in Guantanamo Bay