ESE's works engine tuner

[Greg85]

The first flow bench I got was at Garelli, in 1982, I learned a lot from it.
When I started work at Aprilia I was amazed there was no flow bench.
But one was bought very quickly....
Very good, above all, for exhaust duct development!
A smaller duct with more flow always improved power!
For scavenging it does not make much sense....
As the various flows must slow down each other.
But we did it anyway, to check eventual differences.
It was also helpful for improving the cooling system.
As the water circulation must be as quick as possible, to prevent hot spots...
No cylinder ever left Aprilia without having been flowed!

The exhaust duct was flowed with the piston in different positions:
1mm open, then 2 and 3mm, the blowdown, fully open.
And the auxiliaries and the central ducts separately.

The transfers were flowed with the piston in 4 positions
25% open, 50%, 75% and fully open

Hello mr jan about very interesting about the flowbench I would like to have your expertise about the pictures of the result of a cylinder tm to the jaros thank you very much

[polinizei]

30RWHP That sounds wonderful, I need some of that, will you please show what the transfer ports look like?

EDIT!! That's OK I think I've found it.



Cheers, Daryl

On the picture you see the briged exhaust type. I dont use that.
Search for: Art.Nr.75041440

[adegnes]

I'm about 10 pages behind and have to catch up on the conversation, but...
I might have had a 24/7 experience.
First(and only) dyno run with the Spx today produced 17whp. No subsequent runs because the rotary valve had come loose from the crank, and also had developed some cracks and needs to be replaced.
Last session I got 16,3 hp, and the only difference this time was a slightly thinner straight section on the needle - should not affect WOT at all.

Either the valve shifted slightly on the crank, and this was better, or it got stuck open and that was better. It was stuck shut when i teared it down.
Interesting.

[Peter1962]

What polite request ?you have never made one single previous request to me for anything at all, as for answers you have never asked me a single question.
So i am quite confused as to what you are taking about?

husa, I think that luc is refering to me, some time ago I posted a direct link to the patent (pending) papers, with some comment on the drawings and all that. Luc send me a private message with the request to withdraw the name of the inventor (which -of course- anyone can read in those papers, that is the point of a patent aplication...)
I chose not to do so, because there is no point in doing so. The papers are out in the public domain since february, what is the point in acting like there is a "mister Ryger" ? That is a clear lie...
I do not feel comfortable in such hypocrisy and it is in everyones richt to discuss documents that are in the public domain.
You can not file for a patent and then think that you can do so in an anonimous way.

[FastFred]

I might have had a 24/7 experience.

First(and only) dyno run with the Spx today produced 17whp. No subsequent runs because the rotary valve had come loose from the crank. Either the valve shifted slightly on the crank, and this was better, or it got stuck open and that was better. It was stuck shut when i teared it down. Interesting.

Very possibly 24/7, I recall a similar story from way back in the day when a rotary valve racing engine was being dyno tested. The RV stuck open and the engine ran fine on WOT and continued to make maximum power until the throttle was closed.

[Flettner]

husa, I think that luc is refering to me, some time ago I posted a direct link to the patent (pending) papers, with some comment on the drawings and all that. Luc send me a private message with the request to withdraw the name of the inventor (which -of course- anyone can read in those papers, that is the point of a patent aplication...)
I chose not to do so, because there is no point in doing so. The papers are out in the public domain since february, what is the point in acting like there is a "mister Ryger" ? That is a clear lie...
I do not feel comfortable in such hypocrisy and it is in everyones richt to discuss documents that are in the public domain.
You can not file for a patent and then think that you can do so in an anonimous way.

Is Luc not the full compliment? He needs to apologise to Husa, if nothing else. That tongue of his flapping around like a Ryger transfer reed

[adegnes]

Very possibly 24/7, I recall a similar story from way back in the day when a rotary valve racing engine was being dyno tested. The RV stuck open and the engine ran fine on WOT and continued to make maximum power until the throttle was closed.

Now as I'm waiting for a replacement valve would be the perfect time for some research on the matter.
Wonder if I could get it started and into the powerband with a reedvalve mounted on the bellmouth of the carb? Would effectively make the carb part of the crankcase. Sounds like a bad idea, but simple enough so I'll have to try it.
Nitromethanol could be an advantage here, as long as you pour in enough it doesn't seem to be very picky about the a/f ratio.

[Norman]

husa, I think that luc is refering to me, some time ago I posted a direct link to the patent (pending) papers, with some comment on the drawings and all that. Luc send me a private message with the request to withdraw the name of the inventor (which -of course- anyone can read in those papers, that is the point of a patent aplication...)
I chose not to do so, because there is no point in doing so. The papers are out in the public domain since february, what is the point in acting like there is a "mister Ryger" ? That is a clear lie...
I do not feel comfortable in such hypocrisy and it is in everyones richt to discuss documents that are in the public domain.
You can not file for a patent and then think that you can do so in an anonimous way.

I agree. I know I sent a reference to the February 2017 R-patent a while ago. I think maybe I was first out with a reference and should be the bad guy. So, why hit on you and Husaberg? Sorry for that.

[jamathi]

Hello mr jan about very interesting about the flowbench I would like to have your expertise about the pictures of the result of a cylinder tm to the jaros thank you very much

There was a Jaros flow bench at Aprilia, it proved to be useless, with unrepeatable results...
And even with repeatable results it is useless.
Think of moving piston, pressure pulses, circumstances constantly changing on both sides of the piston!
The only way I found of testing various transfers was by actually making them.
And testing them for power!
The results were quite good....

[husaberg]

husa, I think that luc is refering to me, some time ago I posted a direct link to the patent (pending) papers, with some comment on the drawings and all that. Luc send me a private message with the request to withdraw the name of the inventor (which -of course- anyone can read in those papers, that is the point of a patent aplication...)
I chose not to do so, because there is no point in doing so. The papers are out in the public domain since february, what is the point in acting like there is a "mister Ryger" ? That is a clear lie...
I do not feel comfortable in such hypocrisy and it is in everyones richt to discuss documents that are in the public domain.
You can not file for a patent and then think that you can do so in an anonimous way.

Frits had posted the patent as well

Is Luc not the full compliment? He needs to apologise to Husa, if nothing else. That tongue of his flapping around like a Ryger transfer reed

You are naughty

I agree. I know I sent a reference to the February 2017 R-patent a while ago. I think maybe I was first out with a reference and should be the bad guy. So, why hit on you and Husaberg? Sorry for that.

I think luc objects to the patent being in the public domain and being discussed, which is odd as thats exactly what happens when you patent something.
if they wanted to to remain a secret they should have patented under a name not associated with Ryger.
That said if he had asked politely (or at least not utterly rudely) i would have removed the reference to the creator in what i posted.
But he didn't. Quite the opposite.
The Ryger may be the best thing since sliced bread, but with an attitude like that running the PR, people are going to think they are a scam out for quick dough.

[F5 Dave]

Still think he's a troll with nothing to do with it.

[ken seeber]

Jan, did you ever try using a Jante rig with a series (or sometimes called a comb) of very fine pitot tubes that were traversed across the top of the cylinder (with the head off) whilst blowing air into the crankcase and the piston at varying transfer port heights? A static crank rig. From this a map or pattern could be generated of the upward velocity component of the scavenging flow. Sometimes also done with a motored engine, again with head off. I know Blair was a bit supportive of this method. But in the end, they also a developed a single cycle rig that motored the engine over for just one revolution and, using CO2 in the crankcase (bit hazy on this one), measured the residue CO2 in the cylinder to gauge the trapping efficiency.

[jamathi]

Jan, did you ever try using a Jante rig with a series (or sometimes called a comb) of very fine pitot tubes that were traversed across the top of the cylinder (with the head off) whilst blowing air into the crankcase and the piston at varying transfer port heights? A static crank rig. From this a map or pattern could be generated of the upward velocity component of the scavenging flow. Sometimes also done with a motored engine, again with head off. I know Blair was a bit supportive of this method. But in the end, they also a developed a single cycle rig that motored the engine over for just one revolution and, using CO2 in the crankcase (bit hazy on this one), measured the residue CO2 in the cylinder to gauge the trapping efficiency.

Yes, we made such a rig at Jamathi, used it many years
I even 'flowed' a Suzuki 500/4 works cylinder on it that Barry Sheene brought for me to Bultaco....
When Bultaco closed it stayed there.
I can't say I missed it afterwards.....
A 'real' flow bench proved to be much more useful.

[Frits Overmars]

Now as I'm waiting for a replacement valve would be the perfect time for some research on the matter.
Wonder if I could get it started and into the powerband with a reedvalve mounted on the bellmouth of the carb?

Welcome to the wonderful world of 24/7 Alex. In order to get a 24/t engine started you can even put a hand-held reed valve against the carb bellmouth.

[adegnes]

Welcome to the wonderful world of 24/7 Alex. In order to get a 24/t engine started you can even put a hand-held reed valve against the carb bellmouth.

My thought exactly!