ESE's works engine tuner

[craisin]

hi Buckets4Me i went to the track today but found it hard to socialise with all the push-starting going on i didnt want to get in the way or alter anybodies schedule

[Buckets4Me]

didn't notice you sorry

where where you etc

I think the heat got to a few people
I was stuffed and couldn't ride anymore lol

did you see the undie race

[TZ350]

Copper head results.

Using one of those laser point and read digital heat guns I took readings from some CB125T’s

The head temp., front, flat area between the cylinders, ranged 125 to 135 degrees C. Bottom fin on the barrel 95 degrees and crankcase 71 degrees.

The head temp., of a Suzuki GP125 ridden by Rick56 and without any copper finning. Head 139, bottom fin of barrel 129 and crank case 71 degrees C. Best lap 32 sec.

The head temp., of a Suzuki GP125 ridden by Cully and without any copper finning. Head 127, bottom fin of barrel 101 and crank case 98 degrees C. Best lap 34 sec.

Speedpros MB100 which was sounding really, really good. From memory head 101, barrel bottom
fin 90 and case 70.

I had been over generous with the copper coat during assembly of the copper fins and it was fouling the plugs. Who would have thought copper coat would be a problem for plugs!!!!...

Only getting one lap or so before the plug would quit. So one lap warm-up readings were typically Head 55, copper head fin 42, CPU cooler 39, bottom barrel fin 60, copper under barrel fins 60 to 45 and crank case 43.

Tried to clear the copper coat by swapping in “good” old plugs until it cleared but after about 6 plugs I gave up and pulled the head and barrel of and washed the excess copper coat out.

After this we warmed it up, changed the plug again and managed 5 good laps. Best time 36 sec Head 76, copper head fin 45, CPU cooler 31, bottom barrel fin 97, copper under barrel fins 90 to 58 and crank case 53.

It was a really hot day and I didn’t do very well at collecting the data. Will have to think about what the numbers might mean.

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[craisin]

didn't notice you sorry

where where you etc

I think the heat got to a few people
I was stuffed and couldn't ride anymore lol

did you see the undie race

I should have asked shelracing where you were I was on a little blue bike with chrome side panels on the tank I went to get a drink and parked on the hill when I came back. I was wearing a blue ski-mask when I first turned up I am just over 6 feet my hair is grey there ia still some black in my hair though. Yes it looked too tough for me as i had a parachute accident 22 years ago and i need to set up a hand gearchange for my moped. Sorry for the threadjack TZ350

[TZ350]

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Sorry for the threadjack TZ350

A "PM" works well for personal messages!!

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[craisin]

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A "PM" works well for personal messages!!

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well TZ350 I PMed you and you didnt answer. If you guys had 2 engines it would be easier as you could do back to back comparisons. Anyway I hope your luck changes

[TZ350]

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Temp’s of Suzuki GP125’s without any copper finning.

Rick56,.Head 139..………………………………............…..bottom barrel fin 129………………............………case 71. 32 sec.

Cully,…Head 127..…………………………………...............bottom barrel fin 101…...........…………………...case 98. 34 sec.

Temp’s of Suzuki GP125 with copper finning.

Carl,….Head 76, copper head fin 45, CPU cooler 31, bottom barrel fin 97, copper fins 90-70-58, case 53. 36 sec

It’s apparent that when every thing has reached full operating temperature the head runs marginally hotter than the top of the barrel and 20-30 degrees hotter than the bottom fin of the barrel.

Also the barrel gets up to temperature much quicker than the head and runs much hotter than I expected. Ceramic coating of the exhaust tract has got to be the go.

Also the cases below the barrel run much hotter than I expected them to.

Because Carls best lap of 36 sec is significantly different to Rick’s 32 sec laps, the full head temps can’t really be compared.

What can be seen though is that the relative temperature difference between the bottom barrel fin and case is significantly better on Carl’s bike which has the extra copper fins under the barrel. This in itself would seem a worth while modification.

During the day, taking temperatures, it became apparent how fast the heat moved through the copper head fin compared to the alloy of the head.

I can’t yet say that ceramic coating the combustion chamber is wrong and I can’t yet say that my copper combustion chamber is better but it is looking good so far.

I have become convinced that making the cylinder spacer out of copper and larger so it forms an under barrel fin and making the head gasket oversized and out of copper so it becomes a fin too has got to be worth while.

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[TZ350]

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I need to stay open minded but I feel I am on the money, with the copper and if I can get some better reading next time out we will know one way or the other.

At some point I will ceramic coat the piston and exhaust port tract. With the exhaust ceramic it will be interesting to see if the barrel temperature is reduced.

Next move is to use ice water to chill the incoming air charge and water injection to control detonation.

Thomas is following up F5's suggestion and is thinking about a faster burning fuel so we can retard the ignition to reduce the negative work done on the piston BTDC.

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[craisin]

dual ignition

[TZ350]

dual ignition

I wonder if this could work? A plug each end combinded with a bath tub head, might be possible. Could a bath tub head shaped properly be a better shape for the scavinging transfer streams. Something to think about.

[F5 Dave]

With crasin who knows if that was what he was implying?, perhaps he was to suggest a dual curve CNG conversion?

Twin plug heads work well i understand on bikes prone to detonation like 500cc mx bikes set up for desert race. - big bore, high revs, open throtttle & often high drag conditions.

Smaller cc less & less likely to do much, but i have read of people experimenting on 125s set up for higher revs cleaner running.

[TZ350]

With crasin who knows if that was what he was implying?, perhaps he was to suggest a dual curve CNG conversion?

A wright up from the 2004 Natural Gas Vehicles World Congress (NGV2004), held in Buenos Aires.

Next march, Buenos Aires will be the first city to have motorcycles running with Compressed Natural Gas (CNG). This fuel is the cleanest of the fossil fuels available, as it's composed of methane. When combusted, it transforms into very small amounts of sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxides, virtually no ash or particles, and lower levels of carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, and other reactive hydrocarbons. Coal and oil, on the other hand, result in higher carbon emissions, nitrogen oxide, sulfur dioxide, and the release of ash particles, which don't burn and are carried to the atmosphere, contributing to pollution.

The prototype was presented in the last Natural Gas Vehicles World Congress (NGV2004), held in Buenos Aires, and two companies just announced the launch of models for sale for next march. The special gas tanks (smaller than the cars') have to be approved by the government, but the approvals are in their final stages. The brands responsible are Zanella (Argentinean, site seems to be having problems) and Honda, in association with gas equipment firms. Also, these special tanks will enable current motorcycles to make the switch for $1000 (around US $300).

And he lower picture is a Chinese CNG motorcycle DUAL FUEL 125CC MOTORCYCLE , 12 L of gasoline , 8 L of gas...

This is not such a bad idea as CNG has a very high octane rating of 120 and runs 18:1 in small four strokes.

At work we are familiar with the technology involved with running vehicles on CNG. A bus would run at 14:1 and get long engine life.

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[craisin]

With crasin who knows if that was what he was implying?, perhaps he was to suggest a dual curve CNG conversion?

Twin plug heads work well i understand on bikes prone to detonation like 500cc mx bikes set up for desert race. - big bore, high revs, open throtttle & often high drag conditions.

Smaller cc less & less likely to do much, but i have read of people experimenting on 125s set up for higher revs cleaner running.

your full of crap F5 can you understand that

[koba]

your full of crap F5 can you understand that

With your comments im never sure if I should laugh or, well laugh in a different way!

[F5 Dave]

Well, I get the gist of your poorly formed sentence. It is at least more detailed than your last two-random-word communiqué.

If you paid any attention at school you would have picked up some simple rules of English; ‘You’re’ is short for ‘You are’. ‘Your’ implies the person owns it. My ‘something’ (bucket?) is full of crap perhaps? Try throwing in a full stop or some capitals, I'm making an effort while typing only with my left hand.

Or maybe I just don’t know what I’m talking about. Well I’ve got 4 national titles on bikes I built. How many have you got buddy?

People take the piss when you leave yourself open for it.