ESE's works engine tuner

[jamathi]

I've found Nylon holds up quite well around the carb, been playing with 3D printed bells on Vespas for some time.

Yes Wobbly, exactly!
By the way, did you already test the ceramic coated exhaust duct?
And what was the result?
Is there any news about TM's 'uncooled' exhaust duct?

Regards, Jan

News from the Netherlands:

A Ryger has finally been tested on the same track with a TM.
The TM was just 2.5 seconds a lap quicker..
And the time between gear changes was notably longer.
Power was estimated at about 32HP by a very well known witness, against the 45HP of a TM.
So we'll have to wait some years more for further development......
They still have to try an uncooled exhaust duct, and a shorter connecting rod of 65mm
Maybe HCCI was not working?

The scrapheap might get tired of waiting!!!
That would not be a big surprise to anyone....
Might be that the one who pays wanted to see a reality test!
Finally.

[shnaggs]

Having all 3 of the Ex ports closed by a PV in effect reduces the blowdown to virtually nil.
This works OK in a MX situation, where the engine is used well off the pipe and the low PV setting reduces the really bad effect of the pipe being way to short for the rpm.
In a roadrace engine the combination of the open Aux port with the PV down in the main port, allows a usable amount of blowdown at the lower end of the powerband.
Then the PV is lifted over a fairly wide band of rpm, giving a much wider powerband ,in the range that is used on track.
The Aprilia, and many other engines using this setup,they dont have the PV all up until about 1000 rpm before peak power.

Thanks Wobbly for the explanation. I know it is difficult to change PV closing amounts, especially with a guillotine style vavle, but have you, Jan or Frits messed around with different closing amounts with Aux ports full open?

[wobbly]

Re PV closing.This is easy to test on a dyno.
To setup a PV curve I always do a run with it locked down, at mid position, and then fully up.
Join the Hp points and you have the opening ramp shape.
But then I lock it down , varying the height 0.5mm at a time.
This gives you the best full down point, that gives highest power at the lowest rpm you want to use on track.
This of course can be achieved bu opening the PV early with the servo, but its alot more long term accurate to have a physical
down stop.

[markRD]

News from the Netherlands:

A Ryger has finally been tested on the same track with a TM.
The TM was just 2.5 seconds a lap quicker..
And the time between gear changes was notably longer.
Power was estimated at about 32HP by a very well known witness, against the 45HP of a TM.
So we'll have to wait some years more for further development......
They still have to try an uncooled exhaust duct, and a shorter connecting rod of 65mm
Maybe HCCI was not working?

The scrapheap might get tired of waiting!!!
That would not be a big surprise to anyone....
Might be that the one who pays wanted to see a reality test!
Finally.

Dear Jan,


Can I ask where this was? The track where they supposedly have posted a new track record? Who tested it and are there any videos or articles about it? Did you speak with Aalt Toersen about this engine, or maybe Luc Foekema?

I am intreged by the whole secretive atmosphere around this engine.

[wobbly]

There are no Ryger secrets.
Its in black and white , it makes 70 Hp and spins to 30,000 rpm.
And dont bother to question Luc, as he will go running back to his dyno ( sorry computer screen ) and make up a new graph that proves we all are a bunch
of bastards who dare to doubt the reality of everything he says.

[WilDun]

I am in the happy position of knowing sweet FA about it, so I'll just sit here and enjoy watching it, knowing that it will either blossom into something big, or collapse into a black hole - either way, I must say that it's going to be great entertainment!

[F5 Dave]

If you want to be lied to for entertainment just find the loudest mouth at the pub and go talk to them. The other people who were being inflicted will gladly slink off to the toilet and never reappear.

[jamathi]

Dear Jan,


Can I ask where this was? The track where they supposedly have posted a new track record? Who tested it and are there any videos or articles about it? Did you speak with Aalt Toersen about this engine, or maybe Luc Foekema?

I am intreged by the whole secretive atmosphere around this engine.

The track record was set at Eefde, a very short track for rental karts where no KZ's are allowed....
At a more 'normal' track the Ryger was 2.5 seconds a lap slower than a TM, on the same day.
As far as I know Aalt Toersen has abandoned 50cc Ryger development.
Reported power was 13HP, which is really hopeless....
The 125 Ryger power was estimated at about 32HP by a very competent person watching the test.
In line with the 50cc's result.
The main reason for secrecy seems to be that they don't want people to know how bad this engine really is.
Because they have 50 of them they are wanting to sell, which will be very difficult.
But maybe they can give them away for free, to curious people!
It's based on the way of thinking of around 1950......
Useless and complicated.
Luc called me, and Wobbly, 'so called experts'
So we are not on friendly terms anymore....

A black hole it will be!

[Grumph]

There must be at least 50 public and private museums around the world who'd want one...

But not at the asking price.

[jasonu]

There must be at least 50 public and private museums around the world who'd want one...

.

What for? Paperweights or fancy door stops.

[jamathi]

There must be at least 50 public and private museums around the world who'd want one...

But not at the asking price.

With luck about one third of TM price.....

[SwePatrick]

I read rygerteam were amazed of the poweroutput and they couldn´t understand were the power came from, from the beginning.

I´ll tell you guys from where it came: BAD CALIBRATED DYNO!
I can easily manipulate my own dyno with just adding more inertia in software.
With that the dyno reports amazing power.

And not seeing that if you are unaware of the calibratiing fault you will start looking for explanations.
Those explanations often seem to be 'out of this world', and they have to be.
There´s no other way of explaining their gains.
In fact they are only fooling themselves.
And have been swollowing the whole bait they start to 'sell the story'.

Then reallife results is mediocre and bites them back.
But it´s to late to revert because that questions their knowledge.
So they are building smoke and mirrors....

Rgds
Patrick

[sb07]

There are no Ryger secrets.
Its in black and white , it makes 70 Hp and spins to 30,000 rpm.
And dont bother to question Luc, as he will go running back to his dyno ( sorry computer screen ) and make up a new graph that proves we all are a bunch
of bastards who dare to doubt the reality of everything he says.

I think Luc will not write on this forum for a while

[jamathi]

I read rygerteam were amazed of the poweroutput and they couldn´t understand were the power came from, from the beginning.

I´ll tell you guys from where it came: BAD CALIBRATED DYNO!
I can easily manipulate my own dyno with just adding more inertia in software.
With that the dyno reports amazing power.

And not seeing that if you are unaware of the calibratiing fault you will start looking for explanations.
Those explanations often seem to be 'out of this world', and they have to be.
There´s no other way of explaining their gains.
In fact they are only fooling themselves.
And have been swollowing the whole bait they start to 'sell the story'.

Then reallife results is mediocre and bites them back.
But it´s to late to revert because that questions their knowledge.
So they are building smoke and mirrors....

Rgds
Patrick

They did not even have a dyno when they claimed 70HP.
Power was calculated on a computer.
Later they got a dyno, and the results were not as expected.....
They thought the dyno was at fault, and wanted to send it back to the manufacturer!
But obviously the fault is in the engine.....

[oldjohnno]

I read rygerteam were amazed of the poweroutput and they couldn´t understand were the power came from, from the beginning.

I´ll tell you guys from where it came: BAD CALIBRATED DYNO!
I can easily manipulate my own dyno with just adding more inertia in software.
With that the dyno reports amazing power.

And not seeing that if you are unaware of the calibratiing fault you will start looking for explanations.
Those explanations often seem to be 'out of this world', and they have to be.
There´s no other way of explaining their gains.
In fact they are only fooling themselves.
And have been swollowing the whole bait they start to 'sell the story'...

Reminds me of the old Bourke engine, similar in many ways to the Ryger, not just functionally but in its failure to live up to promises. A very interesting and entertaining tale of the Bourke here.