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Thread: ESE's works engine tuner

  1. #27346
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    11th November 2011 - 12:15
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    TZ does your ecu change fueling using feedback from the Wideband at all?

    Are you saying the first "lean" section after throttle opening is only lean because it didn't fire and therefore could actually be too rich fuel/air to fire?
    In the rough running section is the fueling varying much between the little peaks and valley's? Maybe the ecu is chasing its tail in that zone each time it fires?

  2. #27347
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    12th February 2004 - 10:29
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    Quote Originally Posted by TZ350 View Post
    Attachment 332723

    Red line is throttle, Blue is rpm and Yellow LamWO2 sensor.
    I'd like to see injector pulsewidth in that graph as well

  3. #27348
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    16th February 2017 - 14:26
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    Same rpm, same throttle position, different airflow. The pipe effect on a misfire is very weak if it exists at all...

    Click image for larger version. 

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    My graph doesn't show this well, but above 7k RPM the on-pipe and off-pipe air flow is too different, the on-pipe fuelling (what you've tuned for) will not support combustion off-pipe. Way too rich, true lambda probably around 0.5 or worse. As the engine speed falls below 7k rpm, the on-pipe and off-pipe air flow is not so different, true lambda is approaching the rich limit until it supports combustion. Once combustion begins the small increase of airflow from the pipe effect will bring the lambda above the rich limit, 'clearing' the cylinder. You could install any old MAF sensor to prove this.

    I'm still working on the Ion sensing, but I'm getting impatient so I'm going back to measuring the pressure at the PV vent since that worked the best so far (I now have an adjustable bleed to atmosphere so I can adjust it's sensitivity), and using that input to try a table switching approach. Have a fuel table for no-pipe effect, and a fuel table that incorporates pipe effect. Theoretically I could put a box-style muffler on and tune 1 table, then put the expansion chamber on and tune the other. Pressure pulses will determine whether the pipe effect is active and ECU switches between the tables accordingly. Away from the pipe's effective rpm the tables should be more and more the same.

    I'm thinking a box-muffler would provide no scavenging effect, and no return wave effect, can someone confirm that?

    I'm also designing a 'pressure pulse' sensor. It's basically a piezo electric microphone hooked up to exhaust pressure, it will more accurately and quickly detect the exhaust pulse from the cylinder than the pressure sensor. I figure I can hear when the engine is firing clear as day, why not use a microphone...

  4. #27349
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    18th May 2007 - 20:23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett S View Post
    TZ does your ecu change fuelling using feedback from the Wideband at all?
    No

    Quote Originally Posted by speedpro View Post
    I'd like to see injector pulse width in that graph as well

    I should be able to do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brett S View Post
    Are you saying the first "lean" section after throttle opening is only lean because it didn't fire and therefore could actually be too rich fuel/air to fire?
    Yes I think you are right. It looks lean but it is too rich to fire. But why????

    Quote Originally Posted by Nath88 View Post
    Same rpm, same throttle position, different airflow.

    Above 7k RPM the on-pipe and off-pipe air flow is too different, the on-pipe fuelling (what you've tuned for) will not support combustion off-pipe. Way too rich, true lambda probably around 0.5 or worse.

    As the engine speed falls below 7k rpm, the on-pipe and off-pipe air flow is not so different, true lambda is approaching the rich limit until it supports combustion.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Once combustion begins the small increase of airflow from the pipe effect will bring the lambda above the rich limit, 'clearing' the cylinder.

    Yes Nath I think you and Brett are right, what you say makes sense. Thanks.

  5. #27350
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    24th February 2013 - 08:12
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    Quote Originally Posted by 41juergen View Post
    A friend of mine has NS400R. Yesterday he opened the water pump cover and I was surprised about Honda's idea of an impeller..
    Attachment 332721

    Can this piece work reasonable? I would install something like the RZ style... what do you think?
    I do not like that impeller design. I would not be surprised if you can improve flow with 50% or more with a more flow optimized machined/casted version, if you can find something that will fit, or get made. Boyesen makes water pump improvement kits for some engines with an interesting impeller design. But maybe the original will be ok for a standard engine.

  6. #27351
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    24th January 2014 - 08:12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nath88 View Post

    I'm thinking a box-muffler would provide no scavenging effect, and no return wave effect, can someone confirm that?
    I can not confirm that. A box ( see vespa px 200 standart pipe for example) shows a return wave when it is "full" (helmholz resonance). Also the tube lenght from piston to box might be tuned to support scavenging in a certain rpm range.

  7. #27352
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    21st March 2014 - 22:00
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norman View Post
    I do not like that impeller design. I would not be surprised if you can improve flow with 50% or more with a more flow optimized machined/casted version, if you can find something that will fit, or get made. Boyesen makes water pump improvement kits for some engines with an interesting impeller design. But maybe the original will be ok for a standard engine.
    As the engine shall get more power I think this type of impeller will be ok, along with an adapted pump inlet and a larger rad...
    Click image for larger version. 

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  8. #27353
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    Quote Originally Posted by 41juergen View Post
    As the engine shall get more power I think this type of impeller will be ok, along with an adapted pump inlet and a larger rad...
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Looks exactly like a Suzuki RG50 impeller.

  9. #27354
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    24th February 2013 - 08:12
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    Quote Originally Posted by 41juergen View Post
    As the engine shall get more power I think this type of impeller will be ok, along with an adapted pump inlet and a larger rad...
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Yes, that looks much better. I am surprised they put that other cheap impeller in, actually.

    Another open question; most often you see coolant channels really corroded, is it not allowed in racing to use corrosion inhibitors added to the water?

  10. #27355
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    8th February 2007 - 20:42
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    The foil type impeller blade is hugely more efficient at moving water.
    Two things I have done to improve the flow capability - as the water enters the pump in the middle,replace the center of the impeller with a cone ( threaded internally LH from the back as per original ).
    And secondly you can make ( laser cut - easier ) a cover spacer plate,and increase the impeller blade depth the same amount.
    Doing this on an old TZ350 pump with a 5mm spacer nearly doubled the flow rate, and keeps my TZ400 engine running under 50*C.
    Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.

  11. #27356
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    2nd August 2011 - 11:11
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    Aprilia Power valve

    I am wondering how much the power curve shifts with the blade in the lowest versus the highest position?

  12. #27357
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    2nd March 2013 - 15:04
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norman View Post
    Another open question; most often you see coolant channels really corroded, is it not allowed in racing to use corrosion inhibitors added to the water?
    In MotoGP, the only coolant additive allowed is Glycerol (NOT Glycol) up to 4%.
    You can buy Glycerol at the pharmacy.

    Just to be clear, Glycol is NOT allowed as it is as slippery as oil if it gets on the track.

    I've been using Glycerol for 3 years and it definitely inhibits rust. Apparently it enhances the wetting ability of the water too, so gets better cooling.

  13. #27358
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    12th August 2015 - 03:31
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    eek

    Quote Originally Posted by peewee View Post
    richened the current needle quit alot and third power jet now installed . ill try some nitro again this weekend and see what happens . might end up welding on another chamber to the float bowl for more capacity

    Just a few words of caution. As you get higher in the nitro % always be prepared for a runaway engine when you are experimenting. Make sure you have a way to instantly loadkill the engine. Even with a dead cold startup and the throttle at the idle position, you can get a runaway under the wrong conditions and shutting the ignition off won't do anything. You need to loadkill it immediately because it will build heat fast and scream to even higher revs real quick.

    If the engine is running fine and you hear the revs start to increase a bit, and you haven't touched the throttle, kill it right then and there and look for a problem.

    Be careful revving it under no load, again runaway potential.

    Don't leave the engine running unattended or wander off to get something, no matter how good it seems to be running.

    Nitro runaways are not fun

  14. #27359
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    27th October 2013 - 08:53
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    Quote Originally Posted by nitro2tfx View Post
    Just a few words of caution. As you get higher in the nitro % always be prepared for a runaway engine when you are experimenting. Make sure you have a way to instantly loadkill the engine. Even with a dead cold startup and the throttle at the idle position, you can get a runaway under the wrong conditions and shutting the ignition off won't do anything. You need to loadkill it immediately because it will build heat fast and scream to even higher revs real quick.

    If the engine is running fine and you hear the revs start to increase a bit, and you haven't touched the throttle, kill it right then and there and look for a problem.

    Be careful revving it under no load, again runaway potential.

    Don't leave the engine running unattended or wander off to get something, no matter how good it seems to be running.

    Nitro runaways are not fun
    thanks mate for the advise. ill be running the engine today and report back how it goes. float bowl capacity is increased 50% to 6oz and a 3rd powerjet added. the only problem i may have now is if the needle is rich enough. ive screwed it out to the richest position but it might not be enough and a require a new richer needle but ill find out soon enough. if it runs away ill kill it with rear brakes

  15. #27360
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    27th October 2013 - 08:53
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    nothing good to report. one of my welds had pin hole so fuel leaked all over and engine wouldnt start either. spark and compression seem good so maybe no fuel was getting to the cylinder or else it was flooded from the needle to rich now

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