ESE's works engine tuner

[SwePatrick]

Thanks!
Then I should replace all lamp's to led lights all over the bike and use a battery smaller has needed so there is minimal drag/load on the alternator!?

I was never talking about the magnetic drag.

[Lbracing]

Something is very much not right if you are not getting more power with higher nitro %. Going to higher nitro % does NOT generate diminishing returns it generates greatly increasing returns.

4 stroke thinking doesn't direcly apply to 2 strokes ... again .

Nitro have a very slow burn rate , remember the flames going out of the headers of dragsters ? its mostly nitro still burning .

Maybe the shorter power stroke of 2 stroke engines is why more nitro doesn't seem to make more power ?

[peewee]

Something is very much not right if you are not getting more power with higher nitro %. Going to higher nitro % does NOT generate diminishing returns it generates greatly increasing returns.

It is best to think of nitro like this : instead of thinking you have methanol with an additive (30% nitro), think of it as you have nitro with a massive % of low powered diluent, that being methanol, (you have nitro tamed with 70 % methanol).

On a 4 stroke NA engine you can expect about 5-6 times as much power on 100% nitro as on 100% methanol under the right conditions. You could do even better than that on a 2 stroke if you ignored the fact that the cylinder pressure had to blow down before the transfers opened LOL, but of course that is something that can't be ignored. As you reduce the diluent (methanol), blowdown becomes an issue, when blowdown becomes an issue so does power, and when blowdown becomes a big issue "crankcase venting" may occur. I think you can see where I'm going with this.

interesting. if i were to gain no power from say 10% to 20% nitro, the likely suspect may be insufficient blowdown ? and if the blowdown is insufficient but the nitro percentage is increased,, theres likely to be an explosion or case venting as you call it ? . ill keep this in mind

[speedpro]

Thanks!
Then I should replace all lamp's to led lights all over the bike and use a battery smaller has needed so there is minimal drag/load on the alternator!?

If you are using the alternator output for "anything" and have the regulator/rectifier connected, assuming it is a permanant magnet type, it will produce the same output power at the same rpm. Whether it goes to the regulator or the load it doesn't matter. Permanant magnet alternators therefore create the same load on an engine whether you use the output or not. The windings do get hot, hot enought to sometimes get scorched and regulators get hot as well which is why on big road bikes for instance they will be finned. Smaller alternators may produce 10A at the output of the reg/rec at 14V so we are only talking about 140W absorbed from the engine, minus any drag from rotating parts.

[TZ350]

.
.
.
Another unfulfilling and downright frustrating experience with Ecotrons support Dept.... .

I had really wanted the Ecotrons system to be good value for everyone, but their support system lets them down badly.

[wobbly]

Did it occur to you TeeZee that just possibly, you know more about the system now, than they do.

[RomeuPT]

If you are using the alternator output for "anything" and have the regulator/rectifier connected, assuming it is a permanant magnet type, it will produce the same output power at the same rpm. Whether it goes to the regulator or the load it doesn't matter. Permanant magnet alternators therefore create the same load on an engine whether you use the output or not. The windings do get hot, hot enought to sometimes get scorched and regulators get hot as well which is why on big road bikes for instance they will be finned. Smaller alternators may produce 10A at the output of the reg/rec at 14V so we are only talking about 140W absorbed from the engine, minus any drag from rotating parts.

I am asking this because I have seen tuners taking the windings out and just keep the one that feed the cdi/spark plug working and they keep ignition and the wheight of the flywheel.

I dont really know if it's worty because they make it a secrecy... I always thought alternators only consume power when on load. I would like to be more sure. It would be interesting to reduce some friction to tune DT125, NSR, Aprilia RS, banshee etc

[TZ350]

Another unfulfilling and downright frustrating experience with Ecotrons support Dept.... .

Did it occur to you TeeZee that just possibly, you know more about the system now, than they do.

With small capacity high performance 2T EFI that maybe true ... ... and sure, I can't expect them to be expert at everything.

But what I asked for was a simple change to a basic cal file to turn on the LamO2 sensor.

Its easy enough, other EFI software packages come with tick box's for that sort of thing. With Ecotrons you have to enlist their assistance and it is often a slow difficult process dealing with their help dept.

[speedpro]

... I always thought alternators only consume power when on load.

For a permanant magnet alternator it will always generate power if the magnet is moving past the windings. The way they are regulated is by loading them. Basically the reg/rec short circuits the output to ground until the desired voltage is attained at the output. The more the external load draws the less the reg/rec has to short to ground. If enough load is drawn by pumps and ignition etc then the reg/rec won't have to regulate at all.

[Grumph]

For a permanant magnet alternator it will always generate power if the magnet is moving past the windings. The way they are regulated is by loading them. Basically the reg/rec short circuits the output to ground until the desired voltage is attained at the output. The more the external load draws the less the reg/rec has to short to ground. If enough load is drawn by pumps and ignition etc then the reg/rec won't have to regulate at all.

So the dickhead we found when checking 250 production bikes back in the day who was running with a flat battery, possibly wasn't losing much...It certainly showed a healthy charge rate when tested.

He was a dickhead and got disqualified anyway as it had no air filter element. Much complaining - "it was like that when I bought it" - dickhead.

[wobbly]

The permanent magnets in the flywheel simply pass their field thru the coil - this magnetic field passing thru the wire creates voltage.
It makes no difference if that created voltage is used or not.
The on/off " resistance " you feel when turning the rotor ( especially with Neo magnets ) is the fields passing over the steel stator elements,and that is a constant.
Many tuners thought they were being clever dumping the magnetic rotor in favour of total loss, only to find the thing then simply would not rev out.
Honda and VHM had to make heavy cranks, that in effect simply recreated the original rotational inertia of the stock crank - and this brought back the overev power.

[sb07]

The permanent magnets in the flywheel simply pass their field thru the coil - this magnetic field passing thru the wire creates voltage.
It makes no difference if that created voltage is used or not.
The on/off " resistance " you feel when turning the rotor ( especially with Neo magnets ) is the fields passing over the steel stator elements,and that is a constant.
Many tuners thought they were being clever dumping the magnetic rotor in favour of total loss, only to find the thing then simply would not rev out.
Honda and VHM had to make heavy cranks, that in effect simply recreated the original rotational inertia of the stock crank - and this brought back the overev power.

Hy Wobbly, i'm Stefano
I dont able send you a private message...
i understand you work in the world of the kart ... the next week you are in Lonato circuit?

[Haufen]

Many tuners thought they were being clever dumping the magnetic rotor in favour of total loss, only to find the thing then simply would not rev out.
Honda and VHM had to make heavy cranks, that in effect simply recreated the original rotational inertia of the stock crank - and this brought back the overev power.

Are you talking about a dynamic or steady state situation?

[wobbly]

A race engine is never in " steady state " on a track, except on part throttle,traction limited mid corner.

The next kart race for me is SuperNationals in Vegas, mid November,after which I go back to the TM factory in Pesaro.

[Haufen]

A race engine is never in " steady state " on a track, except on part throttle,traction limited mid corner.

I totally agree. And hence I have always used the acceleration type dyno with race engines. What I found was, that you can have too much inertia which reduces power everywhere in the powerband. I have never experienced that too little inertia kills overrev, so far.

an engine with 'back to okay' inertia by the use of a heavy crank as described by you above, would it behave as follows?

on a steady state test it would fall flat on it's face, no or very little overrev at all (same as with too little inertia on the roller type)
on an acceleration type dyno, overrev capability would be depending on the inertia of the dyno
thus almost steady state like behaviour at very high dyno inertias and dyno pull durations
ideal overrev capabilities if the time for the dyno pull matches the inertia of the engine
and lower power everywhere if the time for the pull is too small

all assuming that EGT and pipe wall temperatures can keep up with the dyno pull.

Good luck at the SuperNationals in Vegas!