ESE's works engine tuner

[Spearfish]

The chamber your experimenting with is called a boost bottle in other parts of the world.
I know its only a scooter performance parts shop but the one linked below have standard bottles to suite different carbs, with the scooter racing engines the chamber makes a difference with big carbs but not so much with standard sizes.
They change to carbon reeds for more rpm with the benefit of less damage if a reed lets go and little less fogging, possibly because of the quicker time to close.

http://www.sip-scootershop.com/EN/Pr...le+POLINI.aspx

Just for interest sake search for polini big evolution cylinders kits the scooter engines are getting over 33hp out of the 94cc version.
Not so much the cylinder but the pipe and ignition system could be adapted to 2t buckets maybe?

http://www.polini.com/en/page_317.html

[Yow Ling]

Thats pretty interesting Spearfish

Boost bottle POLINI

A Boost Bottle is especially interesting in combination with a larger carburetor. A Boost Bottle makes a leaner mix possible, gets better performance and lower fuel usage. Gets better response from your scoot. Gets rid of annoying jerking at partial load.



Vibrations in gas air mix influence induction through the entire rpm range not just your crankcase capacity. But also the ratio of the mix. If the rpm‘s (with an open carburetor) fall under the rpm‘s when an optimal combustion filling is reached, mix from the crankcase will flow back into the manifold, enriching the backflow mix again. An elegant solution to this problem is installation of a Boost Bottle - connected by hose to the induction pipe. During downward motion of the piston, back. owing mix can run in the Boost Bottle, making sure the back. ow doesn‘t influence the mix. Makes sure the mix ration stays the same throughout the entire rpm range. It‘s efficiency can be regulated by varying the length of the connecting hose.


Its interesting as they use it for the exact opposite reason that TZ350 is working on his, TZ is using it so you can use a smaller carb, where as Polini are promoting it as a cure for an over carbed motor.

TZ note the reference to the triple dipping !

[bucketracer]

TZ note the reference to the triple dipping !

Dad smiled……….

The chamber your experimenting with is called a boost bottle in other parts of the world………… below have standard bottles to suite different carbs, with the scooter racing engines the chamber makes a difference with big carbs but not so much with standard sizes.

Thanks for the tip on the boost bottle and where we can get them.

And ….No….. as Yow ling points out, TeeZee’s idea is not a boost bottle but a plenum in the true sense of the word.

The boost bottle is something else and is something that he thinks could be usefully to add to the inlet tract inside the plenum if there is a recurrence of the mid range blarrrs when he extends the inlet duration.....…….

Its interesting as they use it for the exact opposite reason that TZ350 is working on his, TZ is using it so you can use a smaller carb, where as Polini are promoting it as a cure for an over carbed motor.

Dad and Thomas say, nothing wrong with scooter performance parts or ideas, a lot can be learned from them…………..

I know its only a scooter performance parts shop………..

Lots of good info in your post, and links, we will have a good look through it........thanks.

[Bren_chch]

Dad smiled……….

You'd smile too if you'd seen that movie!

[TZ350]

Hi Bren

"tested at track today, all well. bit slow though "

Good to hear your TZR/KE/RG100 special is going well:- http://www.fxr150.co.nz/discussion/v...9&p=5302#p5302

Looking forward to some video.........

[Bren_chch]

Hey

Yes, thanks to f5dave for some good advice during my build i seem to have it pretty sorted, its better than i thought it was going to be... and i thought it was going to be great!

hoping to get out again next week and hoping there will be some other buckets testing.

[richban]

Hey

Yes, thanks to f5dave for some good advice during my build i seem to have it pretty sorted, its better than i thought it was going to be... and i thought it was going to be great!

hoping to get out again next week and hoping there will be some other buckets testing.

Does this mean we will see you at Taupo? Would be great to see some more southerners on the track.

[TZ350]

That's, that Girl.....lapped me twice in the F5 race when it rained............

[Henk]

She did quite well today, got a win as well as making you feel inadequate

[Dutchee]

hehehe, I don't like her either. She went past me in our last B grade race - I couldn't get past AC3_snow (I think) so she got peeved with me and went past both of us. After that I got past him hehehe but the wets started giving me grief (yeah, psychosomatic, I've been told) and couldn't get past her again lol.
I think her win totally inspired her. I've told her that winning b grade ain't a good thing - it'd mean being kicked into touch (a grade).
I like flagging your races, get to watch the racing, and see the different lines, which is harder in the A grade races, as have to watch the area I'm flagging.
Awesome fun today, but crap weather hehee
Michelle

[F5 Dave]

The chamber your experimenting with is called a boost bottle in other parts of the world.
I know its only a scooter performance parts shop but the one linked below have standard bottles to suite different carbs, with the scooter racing engines the chamber makes a difference with big carbs but not so much with standard sizes.
They change to carbon reeds for more rpm with the benefit of less damage if a reed lets go and little less fogging, possibly because of the quicker time to close.

http://www.sip-scootershop.com/EN/Pr...le+POLINI.aspx

Just for interest sake search for polini big evolution cylinders kits the scooter engines are getting over 33hp out of the 94cc version.
Not so much the cylinder but the pipe and ignition system could be adapted to 2t buckets maybe?

http://www.polini.com/en/page_317.html

Pah! What a load of bollocks (no offense I mean the bolt on goodies merchants website). I love these descriptions of what is supposed to be happening & how it will cure the common cold etc.

Yamaha made these famous in the 80s on their MX bikes. But there is a reason you don't see them on modern high performance bikes. (well infact the RG150 has one, but in the form of a long rubber tube). They are really only useful as a plaster for a badly designed (or rather mismatched) pipe. TSR software will tell you how to design one for the area you are trying to affect.

I made an adjustable one for the H100 (now Sketchys bike). The reason was the pipe I designed had too steep of a baffle cone & it caused a dip before peak power. As it was just a for fun bike & I couldn't weld back then (or worth a damn now), I left the pipe as it was. It curved around so modifying it was a big job.

So on with the bottle of the ~right size & I trimmed the tube to suit. I then made an adjustable bottle & plugged it into the manifold. Worked quite nicely to flatten out the dip, at least a bit.

[kel]

Hi TZ, good catching up with you on the weekend. Here is the link to the Blair 2 stroke programs (plus some other stuff) I was talking about http://www.2stroke-tuning.nl/media/i...rogrammas/pro/ Has anyone spotted a copy of Blairs 2 stroke book on the net? I have Bell, Jennings etc but no Blair.

[Spearfish]

Pah! What a load of bollocks (no offense I mean the bolt on goodies merchants website). I love these descriptions of what is supposed to be happening & how it will cure the common cold etc.

Yamaha made these famous in the 80s on their MX bikes. But there is a reason you don't see them on modern high performance bikes. (well infact the RG150 has one, but in the form of a long rubber tube). They are really only useful as a plaster for a badly designed (or rather mismatched) pipe. TSR software will tell you how to design one for the area you are trying to affect.

I made an adjustable one for the H100 (now Sketchys bike). The reason was the pipe I designed had too steep of a baffle cone & it caused a dip before peak power. As it was just a for fun bike & I couldn't weld back then (or worth a damn now), I left the pipe as it was. It curved around so modifying it was a big job.

So on with the bottle of the ~right size & I trimmed the tube to suit. I then made an adjustable bottle & plugged it into the manifold. Worked quite nicely to flatten out the dip, at least a bit.

Never any offence taken.
Its interesting you say a bottle is just a patch for poorly set up engine, I've seen that mentioned many times and tend to agree.
Maybe one angle to look at it is that all race tuned engines are inherently poorly set up at some point if used for a different application than the job it was tuned for.
2t pipes are an art in themselves and its frustrating how hard they are make fit a bike and produce the power curve where you want it. I would be nice if it only needed to stick straight out of the cylinder without curves.

[F5 Dave]

Yeah I'd only bother on a reed engine of course & if there is a pronounced dip in the power that can't be tuned out with jetting & you can't be arsed changing the pipe.

PS: things I learnt on the way: The bottle of the right size can be hard to find. To calculate size you need to know the carb size, the tube dia & length + the revs you have a problem with. Obviously one somewhere near & adjusting the length of the pipe will get you spot on. Don't use a thin plastic, the inlet vacuum will suck it together. I feel stupid for even trying it.

The first decent test one I made with some metal tube with some endcaps epoxied on. Decided that would fail after a while, but was proof of concept. I measured the volume (c/w tube) with water so I could make another below the same.
I made my adjustable one out of two ~50mm bits of ally tube, had to cut one & weld it back together & resurface it so they were a sliding fit. Then turned a groove for a badly fitting thin o-ring. It seemed to work (if be a bear to adjust) but I wrapped around some inner tube & clamps to be sure.

I had an RZ350 type manifold (with the hole for the balancer pipe) so I mounted it directly above.

[Bert]

maybe 2.5mm plastic pressure pipe & fittings (end caps & step downs) might work? wouldn't be to hard to make series of different sizes/shapes/volumes to dyno test..
the inlet manifold would be the hardest to sort out (like Dave said most Yamaha MX bikes use to have them including later model DTs & DTRs plus the RD,RZ & tzr road series).