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Thread: ESE's works engine tuner

  1. #2746
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    Quote Originally Posted by F5 Dave View Post
    Yeah I'd only bother on a reed engine of course & if there is a pronounced dip in the power that can't be tuned out with jetting & you can't be arsed changing the pipe.

    PS: things I learnt on the way: The bottle of the right size can be hard to find. To calculate size you need to know the carb size, the tube dia & length + the revs you have a problem with. Obviously one somewhere near & adjusting the length of the pipe will get you spot on. Don't use a thin plastic, the inlet vacuum will suck it together. I feel stupid for even trying it.

    The first decent test one I made with some metal tube with some endcaps epoxied on. Decided that would fail after a while, but was proof of concept. I measured the volume (c/w tube) with water so I could make another below the same.
    I made my adjustable one out of two ~50mm bits of ally tube, had to cut one & weld it back together & resurface it so they were a sliding fit. Then turned a groove for a badly fitting thin o-ring. It seemed to work (if be a bear to adjust) but I wrapped around some inner tube & clamps to be sure.

    I had an RZ350 type manifold (with the hole for the balancer pipe) so I mounted it directly above.
    If you wanted one that was adjustable. You could use some pipe like you said, thread the outside of one piece and the inside of another. So to adjust you just screw it up/unscrew etc. Using a 1.5mm pitch, the cut depth is (if memory serves) something like 1.28 mm. So you could use something reasonably thin. 2mm or so. Turn a up a lock nut at the same time so your "bottle" doesn't change in volume during a race.

    Or something.
    Quote Originally Posted by sil3nt View Post
    Fkn crack up. Most awkward interviewee ever i reckon haha.

  2. #2747
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    17th February 2008 - 17:10
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    both these two rider have tested the team E.S.E bikes and show the quality or lack of it up here
    remembering this is a wet track and very slipery with both bikes out on slicks





    sorry about the sound and quality of the video (something hapened when i uploaded it ?)
    "Instructions are just the manufacturers opinion on how to install it" Tim Taylor of "Tool Time"
    “Saying what we think gives us a wider conversational range than saying what we know.” - Cullen Hightower

  3. #2748
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    Well that was scintillating. I gave up watching when it started going blurry, what a snore of an intro. JC won't be found in a pair of jeans anytime soon huh?


    Gatch that is a great idea. . . . except have you ever made large diameter ally into ally threads? It'll seize up like a 60's Bulltaco.
    Don't you look at my accountant.
    He's the only one I've got.

  4. #2749
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    Quote Originally Posted by F5 Dave View Post
    Gatch that is a great idea. . . . except have you ever made large diameter ally into ally threads? It'll seize up like a 60's Bulltaco.
    Yes, I put a 1mm pitch thread on the bottom of my ally tacho pod not 2 months ago. I cant remember exactly but it was around 70ish diameter.. Give it an extra few hundredths for luck, then put a little grease on the entire length of the thread.

    Smoother than wiping your bum on a silk sheet.
    Quote Originally Posted by sil3nt View Post
    Fkn crack up. Most awkward interviewee ever i reckon haha.

  5. #2750
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    I hear rumors of a new engine

    Thomas and Bucketracer have been hard at work doing huge amounts of over time
    wonder what they are up to ?

    will it be ready for Taupo or better yet Hampton Downs

    will it be supercharged Turboed or something different (a 4 stroke ) ?

    maby they put a sidecar together
    OR finaly finished that rg50 that was started a year ago

    did they sell the aprillia ?
    "Instructions are just the manufacturers opinion on how to install it" Tim Taylor of "Tool Time"
    “Saying what we think gives us a wider conversational range than saying what we know.” - Cullen Hightower

  6. #2751
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    30th September 2008 - 09:31
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    OK..... now that you have outed us.....

    Most of the parts are sorted and ready to assemble, we will post pictures as we put it all together.

  7. #2752
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    Assembling the Bottom-end.

    Ok I know the order is a bit random, but when I select the pictures in order, KiwiBiker seems to just load them randomly:-

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Enlarged transfer port entry's.

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    Clutch holding tool made from an old clutch cover.

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    A Big Hole for the Inlet, 35mm at the bell-mouth tapering to 32mm at the valve.

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    A hook made for lifting the clutch springs and rags covering the gearbox so any escaping clutch pins don't fall into the gears.

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    The inlet is shaped for maximum area when its open. And an idea of Thomas's, cutting the Rotary Valve for fast opening and soft closing.

  8. #2753
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    Why? so you can extend the period of blowback without the gains of freeflow when in frequency? Hey I'm all in favour of trying.

    But at least, the start of a proper boostport transfer. Hope you've closed off the original gash slot.
    Don't you look at my accountant.
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  9. #2754
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    Quote Originally Posted by F5 Dave View Post
    Why? so you can extend the period of blowback without the gains of freeflow when in frequency? Hey I'm all in favour of trying.

    But at least, the start of a proper boostport transfer. Hope you've closed off the original gash slot.
    1)

    2) it all just depends on the scavenge patterns......

  10. #2755
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    18th May 2007 - 20:23
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    Thomas and Bucket are making a good job of assembling the engine.

    Thomas explained the soft closing idea to me and it sounds like it has merit.

    This is a little something towards understanding compression ratios that I found on the net..........

    As the boys are going to have to set the compression ratio later by skimming the head and measuring the volume of the combustion chamber as they go along to achieve the ratio they think is best for this engine.

    There are basically two commonly utilised methods of stating a given engine's compression ratio:

    The "Uncorrected Method" (sometimes referred to as the Geometric or European method) which compares the volume above the piston at Bottom Dead Centre (BDC) to the volume above the piston at exact Top Dead Centre (TDC). This method is often criticised because it does not reflect the dynamics that occur during the engine's actual running conditions, but, as with steady state flow techniques used on a flow bench (which also do not duplicate actual running circumstances) it has a very useful place in the planning of an engine's tuning and application.

    The "Corrected Method" (sometimes referred to as the Trapped or Japanese method) which compares the volume above the piston at the point on the upstroke that the exhaust port roof is fully closed (on a two stroke, exhaust valve closed on a four stroke) to the volume above the piston at exact Top Dead Centre (TDC). This at first seems to be the most sensible way of looking at the situation since how could we really begin compressing fuel/air mixture before all "leaks" are shut off, right? Well, not really...

    At elevated engine speeds (rpm), the piston is moving so quickly that it will actually "outrun" the fuel/air mixture to the "leak" and "trap" a much larger volume of fuel/air in the upper cylinder than just the static volume above the exhaust port. This "trapping efficiency" improves with more rpm's.

    The rest can be read here:- http://www.sacoriver.net/~red/uccr.html

  11. #2756
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    well that in itself isn't the issue. At higher speeds you are also entering the tuned freq of the engine. At the start he is saying some fairly shaky things, but redeems himself further down. . . . Then I lost interest in what is obviously designed as marketing material.

    The real situation is that it is always a compromise & it is up to your to find the best compromise for your engine & power you want. That means testing & if you go down a different path (say smaller stinger/steeper baffle vs lower compression & altered ignition) you should really rip up & start again. However not many have that much time or money to test pure results every time.
    Don't you look at my accountant.
    He's the only one I've got.

  12. #2757
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    All silliness aside, it's actually not a bad link.... But let's just be clear, while is has some well written factual information with-in, I would say about 30% is either wrong or dubious.

    Such is the Internet.

  13. #2758
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    Quote Originally Posted by F5 Dave View Post
    . . . . Then I lost interest in what is obviously designed as marketing material.

    The real situation is that it is always a compromise & it is up to your to find the best compromise for your engine & power you want.......
    Hi Dave

    Marketing material? must have gone over my head, I completely missed that.

    What I saw was a good description of the difference between corrected and uncorrected methods of measuring compression ratios and how you need to be aware that dynamics affects things and that trying for an 8:1 or 9:1 corrected compression ratio might well put you outside of what is workable when calculated as an uncorrected ratio and that some sort of compromise may be needed.

    Its topical for us, because when the boys set the new engine up to get their chosen corrected ratio they will need to keep an eye on the uncorrected ratio too.

    I posted it because I thought the descriptive part explained what I wanted to say and was written better than I could manage myself (and quicker too).

    I think the general public aren't all clowns and can be trusted to appreciate the meat of the message and to ignore whatever commercial aspect there might be if that doesn't interest them.

    And I agree, it is up to the tuner to find the best compromise for their engine and its almost always a compromise.

  14. #2759
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    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	A-New Motor Checking for a Bent Rod.jpg 
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    By sliding a feeler gauge around the edge of the piston you can tell if the rod is bent as the feeler gauge will be tight on one side and not the other. With the tip of the feeler gauge you can also tell if the top ring is broken. Checking for broken top rings maybe more applicable to 4-strokes, but still it's a good trick to know.

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    Using a feeler gauge to check the deck height, and as this is a flat top piston and the head is also flat the static squish clearance (0.8mm) will also be the same as the deck height on this engine. Its anyones guess what the dynamic squish will be, what with rod strech and all that. Possible dynamic affects are something to keep in mind.

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    The best tool known to man for pulling lock tabs up tight and removing frost plugs from car engine blocks.

    Go on, tell me it can't be done, I thought it was a load of old cobblers to untill I saw how Thomas uses one of these to pull frost plugs and it's real easy.

    For me to show you, it will cost two chocolat fish.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    After inserting the Cir-Clips, push them a quarter turn to ensure they are properly seated in the grove. If they are not in properly they will snap in and snug down as you turn them. (helpfull engine building tips from Thomas).

    Click image for larger version. 

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    A tool made from a couple of handle bar clamps and pipe to hold the crank so the primary gear nut can be done up tight.


    Well I have finally figured it out, KiwiBiker loads the pictures according to file size and not how I select them, is there an option to change that?

  15. #2760
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    In the picture showing installing the piston clips I notice the cutouts behind the transfer cutouts appear not at all symetrical, in fact not even similar. Is it the photo angle, an optical illusion, or some sort of 'trick' grind?

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