ESE's works engine tuner

**EssexNick** · 8th January 2018, 20:22

Peewee,
I think aluminum is the way to go because you want to get the heat to the outside world as quickly as possible. Steel will hold heat for longer, (and having a void like a vacuum flask making things worse), means the heat can only go back into the washed through mixture.
If your local firm can turn the outside of a spigot then they can certainly bore the centre nice and round, leaving you less work opening it out to the size and shape you want.

**Matt@TYGA** · 8th January 2018, 22:58

Originally Posted by peewee

my other Idea is to get a chuck of 6061 or 7075 (assuming it can be fairly easily machined as I have no experience with 7075). then have a local shop machine the outside spigot dimensions then ill hand grind the inside of the passage. t6-7075 would be more appealing since I think it would have a higher wear resistance between the spigot and pipe, as this engine vibrates quit alot

7075-T6 is very strong, but is prone to corrosion cracking. If you can source 7075-T73 this would possibly be a better choice of material.

I recently made a oval-round transition manifold for the NSR150 out of some scrap 6061-T6, and to be honest it was showing unacceptable wear after just the day's dyno session. Didn't leak or anything, but don't think that I'd want to use it for an actual part.

Matt.

**Haufen** · 9th January 2018, 02:57

Originally Posted by peewee

my other Idea is to get a chuck of 6061 or 7075 (assuming it can be fairly easily machined as I have no experience with 7075). then have a local shop machine the outside spigot dimensions then ill hand grind the inside of the passage. t6-7075 would be more appealing since I think it would have a higher wear resistance between the spigot and pipe, as this engine vibrates quit alot

heres were im stumped, im thinking the steel method is the better of the two situations. wouldn't the steel spigot idea heat up slower and put less radiant heat back into the washed through mixture ? and the hollow cavities might even help this alittle ? aluminum seems like it soaks up heat so fast and would radiate it back into the mixture a lot

Don't worry about heating the washed through mixture with the spigot. The EGT will always be above the temperature of the spigot, hence heat will always be transferred from the exhaust gas to the spigot and not the other way round.

To maximize the cooling effect, aluminium would be the material of choice (copper would be even better still). Personally, and having hand grinded 7075 before (pita), I would choose another aluminium and have the pipe sit an an all around o-ringed flange (two radial and one in the direction the pipe is stuck on to rest the pipe against). And btw, I don't know if you planned to, but 7075 can not be welded.

**Frits Overmars** · 9th January 2018, 04:55

Originally Posted by Haufen

Don't worry about heating the washed through mixture with the spigot. The EGT will always be above the temperature of the spigot, hence heat will always be transferred from the exhaust gas to the spigot and not the other way round.

The temperature of the washed-through mixture will always be below the temperature of the spigot, hence heat will always be transferred from the spigot to the mixture. The hotter the spigot, the more it will heat up the mixture. I don't think that's what we want.

**breezy** · 9th January 2018, 08:00

just watched a few you tube videos showing plasma sparks on spark plugs..... cant remember how to down load here, but has anybody had a go? power enhancers? or engine killers? looks pretty easy to set up to experiment. i would say the spark produced looks like something you would use to cut through steel, not sure what it would do to a piston!

**katinas** · 9th January 2018, 08:18

Originally Posted by peewee

my other Idea is to get a chuck of 6061 or 7075

Best 2618 ( high Cu and temperature plus Fe ) and 2014, 2024 ( high precentage of Cu ) much stronger than 6061.

I try 7075, its good, but some scuff spots from vibration ( high precentage of zinc not good for high temperature )

Stay away from 6000 grade (soft cheese), but 6026 would be most suitable from 6000 grade .

**husaberg** · 9th January 2018, 16:29

Originally Posted by TZ350

Great, thanks, I have been looking for TPS like that.

Pretty sure flettner had troubles with the Suzuki one he used to run, is that what you used to use as well?

**Pursang** · 9th January 2018, 16:47

Originally Posted by peewee

hey guys I need some help from the masters. I have a common cr500 steel exh spigot (not the exact one in the photo but similar) and I need to narrow it down closer to 75% or so. I have to first say that theres no reasonably easy method (or even reasonably hard method) I can water cool it, without a huge undertaking and I don't have time for that now, so ill make do with what I can at the moment. maybe you fellers have even a better solution

my amateur ideas are simply to get some flat steel plate which I already have in the garage and weld it in the spigot, creating the roof and floor ( like in the pics), and of course weld caps over the ends at the exit so its sealed from the pipe side , the other end may not need a cap since its mated against the cylinder. but this method leaves a hollow void below the floor and above the roof (arrows in pics)

my other Idea is to get a chuck of 6061 or 7075 (assuming it can be fairly easily machined as I have no experience with 7075). then have a local shop machine the outside spigot dimensions then ill hand grind the inside of the passage. t6-7075 would be more appealing since I think it would have a higher wear resistance between the spigot and pipe, as this engine vibrates quit alot

heres were im stumped, im thinking the steel method is the better of the two situations. wouldn't the steel spigot idea heat up slower and put less radiant heat back into the washed through mixture ? and the hollow cavities might even help this alittle ? aluminum seems like it soaks up heat so fast and would radiate it back into the mixture a lot

We want the heat & energy from the exhaust pulse to go out into the chamber. The spigot & duct should absorb, hold and re-transfer as little heat to the charge as possible.
Make your reducer from stainless steel, pull the air out the cavities before sealing them, if you can. Polish the surfaces. Just like a Vacuum flask.

and a Happy New Year to All. Cheers, Daryl.

**TZ350** · 9th January 2018, 18:23

Originally Posted by husaberg

Pretty sure flettner had troubles with the Suzuki one he used to run, is that what you used to use as well?

No I have been using the TPS that came with the Ecotrons system but looking for something else for others because no one else on the team is crazy enough to run EFI on their 2T.

**flyonly** · 9th January 2018, 20:22

Frits

I was talking with the bucket guys and one of them suggested you might know the answer to my question

If I have a piston port 50cc two stroke and the reed cage is in the crankcase. Do you think it's possible to run with out the reed block?

I am using the bike for land speed racing in Australia. It's a TZR50 R 4EU so not the AM 6 engine

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**husaberg** · 9th January 2018, 20:30

Originally Posted by TZ350

No I have been using the TPS that came with the Ecotrons system but looking for something else for others because no one else on the team is crazy enough to run EFI on their 2T.

I am having problems finding a pic of the RGV one but they work much like this with a splitter cable providing the location fotr the potentiometer.

but the best set up itp use would be a KX keihin or a Keihin off a NSR.

the push pull makes it easy on the NSR set up

Pretty sure the mikunis on a 97-98 CR125 had a TPS as well (they has some electricy gubins if memory serves anyway)

**tedspeed230** · 9th January 2018, 22:03

Originally Posted by katinas

Best 2618 ( high Cu and temperature plus Fe ) and 2014, 2024 ( high precentage of Cu ) much stronger than 6061.

I try 7075, its good, but some scuff spots from vibration ( high precentage of zinc not good for high temperature )

Stay away from 6000 grade (soft cheese), but 6026 would be most suitable from 6000 grade .

Hi Can anyone recomend the best aluminium for a weld on packer to extend my cylinder ?
Thanks Neil

**Frits Overmars** · 9th January 2018, 23:26

Originally Posted by breezy

just watched a few you tube videos showing plasma sparks on spark plugs..... cant remember how to down load here, but has anybody had a go? power enhancers? or engine killers? looks pretty easy to set up to experiment. i would say the spark produced looks like something you would use to cut through steel, not sure what it would do to a piston!

The plasma principle is not that complicated. The diagram below shows how it's done. At the left is a conventional ignition system. At the right the low-tension coil input and the high-tension coil output are connected through a series of diodes that prevent the high tension from returning to the input side.

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The spark starts in the normal way. A high tension between the plug electrodes is needed to create an ionized path through the mixture. That path is conductive and a spark will occur. But once that conductive path is established, it can also conduct the primary low-tension, high-current flow, which then does not have to travel through the primary coil windings anymore, but can jump the spark plug gap directly.

A high-tension spark in itself is not a very good igniter; you may have seen videos of people handling million-volt Tesla discharges without getting hurt.
But bring in a high current and things change...

Plasma ignitions do not harm the piston, but they can eat spark plug electrodes for breakfast. Martijn Stehouwer (www.emot.nl) has been racing such a system: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BfQuxyWN90 , winning the European 50cc championship twice. He actually had to reduce the current in order to make the plug survive long enough. He reports better engine performance, especially in damp conditions.

**Frits Overmars** · 9th January 2018, 23:31

Originally Posted by flyonly

If I have a piston port 50cc two stroke and the reed cage is in the crankcase. Do you think it's possible to run with out the reed block?

Running it: yes. Starting it: no.
That is why my 24/7 inlet system has a hinged reed that can be shut for starting the engine in the conventional reed-mode, and that can be swung out of the way, once the engine is running in the power band and the exhaust pipe suction is taking care of things.

**flyonly** · 10th January 2018, 06:43

Originally Posted by Frits Overmars

Running it: yes. Starting it: no.
That is why my 24/7 inlet system has a hinged reed that can be shut for starting the engine in the conventional reed-mode, and that can be swung out of the way, once the engine is running in the power band and the exhaust pipe suction is taking care of things.

Do you have a picture of the 24/7 setup?

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