ESE's works engine tuner

[SS90]

No...... your the one talking about the plenum and dyno graphs

Here is yours and mine to help you,......... now why is the plenum better than your graph?

What, 4 years ago, on a cylinder I made myself, running through a 4 speed gear box, that currently makes over 27 PS?

You really are making me look good. Thanks!

now, stop your all too familiar desent into childishness, before the moderators close this thread down!

My question is simply do you know why the cylinder you and Thomas did makes less power than a cylinder with essesntially a standard cylinder, with just the exhaust time area increased?
I am interested to know why.

[gav]

Yes I am proud of my work.

The rest of your post is a bit rambily, it would be smarter if you could explain how TeeZee's plenum idea tops your best efforts to date........

Seriously, you two are as bad as each other, but SS90 does raise some valid points.
Have you got any dyno runs of the various set ups to compare. Could be as simple as different weather conditions etc on the day of the runs or maybe the later curves make less peak power but over a broader range? It wouldnt do any harm to pull your head in now and again and try and answer a quite reasonable question.

[SS90]

or the fact it has a new pipe on it

why answer someone that is just trying to cause trouble ??
did you not read the posts he has deleted ?

where where the reasonable questions in calling bucketracer names

What the hell are you talking about?

What names?

You paranoid boy.

This is a public forum, and as such, like it or not, debate and discussion is permitted.

I don't think it unfair to discuss the fact that current "set up" seems to make less power than last.

Its topical. Very much so.

We can take the different dynes into account, fair enough, but the point I am trying to make is that, from the data provided, the old cylinder, with no plenum, makes more power than the new cylinder with a Plenum.

This is going by your Fathers data.

I was hoping someone would have data from all the available set ups you have been posting.

Apples with apples and such things.

Are there any runs of the same engine with the several other exhaust options your Father has available?

If I was trying to draw a conclusion for the highest power engine, going by the data your Father has provides, it would seem that the old cylinder, with the new exhaust, and the Plenum would make well in advance of 21 hp ( Because if the new cylinder makes LESS power WITH the Plenum than the old cylinder made WITHOUT.... It would stand to reason that (going by TeeZees data) that to achieve the most power (peak and spread) you need the new pipe, the old cylinder , and the Plenum.

This is, of course, assuming that all data presented has been honestly applied to each example.

It seems really odd to me, that's all.

Going by the data provided that is.

[kel]

The simple fact is that the ESE motors have had serious development time and thought poured into them and the results show not only in the quality (and volume) of work but in the performance on the track. The GP125's are producing seriously useable power and a top end to envy. So it’s great to compare Dyno runs but let’s face facts it is on the track that real performance is measured. The level of racing at Mt Wellington is fierce, Avalon (on an ESE bike) was in third place in the points race before retiring with a non motor related mechanical issue, there's your proof on performance!
Teezee, I look forward to your continuing experiments, development and results.

[SS90]

.





I would be impressed by a videoed 27 PS at the rear wheel dyno run of a 24mm carbed rotary valve air cooled 125cc 2-stroke engine with more than a 2000 rpm power spread that you built yourself, any chance of a vid and graph?......

This is Buckets first dyno graph.

Ok, I will post a video of one of my engines on the dyno, 125cc air cooled, 28mm carb reed valve piston inlet induction 28 mm D slide Dellorto..... And I have already posted a graph.... Last year As soon as you post a video of either the plenumed bike riding a lap or 2 , or running on a dyno.

fair enough?

[SS90]

Its the only dyno graph I have, and SS90 has been told many times that the plenum works, and even seen vids of it, TeeZee has been more than reasonable, and yet SS90 goes on trying to undermine his achievements.



"He raises some valid points", well I don't think so. Whether or not my engine makes more or less power than other ESE bikes is irrelevant. Its the comparison on the same engine, with and without the plenum fitted that matters and indicates it's potential.

This time we had my graph showing a proper apples with apples comparison between the two setups and it was my pleasure to point out it equals or betters the best yet seen from Bavaria. So.....make a habit out of mocking my Karate suit and acoustic guitar at your peril.

And if the Bavarian s haven't been able to see the potential by now they probably couldn't understand the answer anyway, that is, unless they are onto it and SS90 as their front man is being deliberately obtuse.

What a load of cobblers, I posted a graph of a 20 hp 24mm carbed disc valves engine 12 months ago... In fact, Teezee reposted it a couple of pages back.... That engine was built almost 6 years ago.

All your waffle about people not understanding BMP is ridiculous.... Thus is what some of us do for a living, you simply google things then list them here, and get your back up when I question your data.

If you don't like it, yiu would just have a wee private forum jerk circle so you can tell each other how good you are.

This is a public forum, and debate and discussion is permitted.

If you don't like it, write a book.

[SS90]

And, for the record, using your data, so far, the evidence is that the Plenum does not work.

The old engine WITHOUT the Plenum made more power than the new engine WITH the Plenum.

that's a FAIL.

[SS90]

My first try with the plenum is as good as that, people who claim they do it for a living should be ashamed of themselves.... got anything more up to date, didn't think so, so do we have to mark your efforts as a fail????????

And you didn't show much understanding of BMEP on page 2683 when TeeZee was trying to explain it to you..... you should Google more and expand your education ....

This is a public forum, and debate and discussion is permitted.

If you don't like it, write a book.

BMP is quite new to you, as you have demonstrated, as are time areas, scavenge patterns, squish heads, primary compression, and so on.

TeeZees continual insistence on trying any mathematical formula to "smoke and mirror" observers into believing that this engine may make less power, but if we look at this portion of the the graph, we see a gain, so this makes it an all round better engine.

Its good that your dad tells you how good you are, it's important for a teenager to hear these things... But let us not lose sight of that fact that encouragement needs to be tempered with reality.

If you want to run with the big boys, and spend the last year criticizing my writings, you have to be prepared for the consequences.

It was only a year ago that Team ESE claimed that the key to power was exhaust port duration, and that the engine made so much power that it was over heating..... We all know the out come of that theory....eh!

But, I will concede that if you can somehow manage to read this thread from post to post (hard work), you have been able to demonstrate that the way to learn, is to actually listen to what others say, and not follow the net blindly, and act like you knew it all the while time.

[gav]

[Yow Ling]

Yea that showed em Gav !!

[bucketracer]

from the data provided, the old cylinder, with no plenum, makes more power than the new cylinder with a Plenum.

Apples with apples and such things.

Comparing the old engine, which is now in Chambers bike (72) with TeeZee’s new one (14) is not, Apples with apples and such things.

To get an idea if the plenum concept works, you have to test the same engine, with and without the plenum…

SS90 does raise some valid points. It wouldn’t do any harm to pull your head in now and again and try and answer a quite reasonable question.

I don’t think they are valid points, you know, apples with apples and such things, and as for pulling my head in and answering a reasonable question, I would if it was also honest and intelligent ……..

And, for the record, using your data, so far, the evidence is that the Plenum does not work. The old engine WITHOUT the Plenum made more power than the new engine WITH the Plenum. that's a FAIL.

Mt Welly is more about drivability than power. When your not being childish you do sometimes make sense and ironically I was trying some of your ideas, Dad said they wouldn’t work, but I was pleased he gave me a free hand to try.

I will leave my graph with the plenum so others can see for themselves if the plenum works, when compared, back to back on the same engine, you know, Apples with apples and such things and a graph of your best work so they can compare my efforts plus the plenum with you own.

That way they can make up their own minds. If you have a more up to date graph, please post it.

[SS90]

Comparing the old engine, which is now in Chambers bike (72) with TeeZee’s new one (14) is not, Apples with apples and such things.

To get an idea if the plenum concept works, you have to test the same engine, with and without the plenum…



I don’t think they are valid points, you know, apples with apples and such things, and as for pulling my head in and answering a reasonable question, I would if it was also honest and intelligent ……..



Mt Welly is more about drivability than power. When your not being childish you do sometimes make sense and ironically I was trying some of your ideas, Dad said they wouldn’t work, but I was pleased he gave me a free hand to try.

I will leave my graph with the plenum so others can see for themselves if the plenum works, when compared, back to back on the same engine, you know, Apples with apples and such things and a graph of your best work so they can compare my efforts plus the plenum with you own.

That way they can make up their own minds. If you have a more up to date graph, please post it.

Erm, Im not trying to make this a competition.

It's late, and I have been at work since 8:00 am...... But, ok, let's rock.

Ignoring the other graphs I posted, let's concentrate on this one.

My engine produces 20 PS at just over 7500 rpm

Yours less than 7ps at the same rpm....

Mine 19 NM at 7250

Yours.... A shade over 13NM at 9700

Which is more driveable?

Would you like to discuss BMEP now?

You know, if you stopped trying discredit me, and compete, just realise you are young and have a lot to learn.... And you might actually start.

Here is some really good advise.

If you want to be a tuner, other than showing some respect, a great idea would be to get hold of an AX100 (you can buy 125 cylinder kits for them), fit a 24 mm carb to be in the rules, and develop a high horsepower engine with the restrictions of a 4 speed gear box..... When everyone around you has the same limitations (no possibility of 5 speeds), the level of competition goes through the roof.

Trust me, 125cc, 4 speed, 23 PS is achievable....albeit peaky power...... And difficult to keep in the power.

[TZ350]

.

Changing tack slightly......... we have been troubled by carb flooding in the past, with old carbs, the problem was traced to the "O" ring around the needle seat. It shrinks over time and leaks allowing the carb to flood. Its not a common size but we were able to get them from seal imports...............

[jasonu]

...If you want to be a tuner, other than showing some respect, a great idea would be to get hold of an AX100 (you can buy 125 cylinder kits for them), fit a 24 mm carb to be in the rules, and develop a high horsepower engine with the restrictions of a 4 speed gear box..... When everyone around you has the same limitations (no possibility of 5 speeds), the level of competition goes through the roof.

Trust me, 125cc, 4 speed, 23 PS is achievable....albeit peaky power...... And difficult to keep in the power.

It would be like riding a can of spagetti and maybe a bit dangerous with the AX running gear.

[TZ350]

It would be like riding a can of spagetti and maybe a bit dangerous with the AX running gear.

Something like riding our old GP's...............