ESE's works engine tuner

[Jannem]

Interesting idea. Yes, when you think about it, it has all been at the header end and the benefits trumpeted by the Marketing dept. Just because it was done that way and popularized in the 70's and 80's does not mean its the only way, or even the best way.

Packing the IP to the engine may partially also be a business decision. Protecting IP against few big engine manufacturers is better business that gazillion independent pipe builders. Having IP in the pipe may also reduce the aftermarket support and lose sales.

[Jannem]

I've got to admit I'm beginning to have heretic thoughts in this environment and wondering if there would be any value left in the 2-stroke world for IP... I'm thinking there is one aspect not directly addressed in any of these previous ideas and discussions, which would (with reasonable expectation) have a significant positive impact to the performance.

Now that I just got the ignitech, I've got to try this out.

And it's also somewhat possible, that simple crudeness of the solution will just look wrong and ridiculous for everyone when presented without the results.

[TZ350]

I've got to admit I'm beginning to have heretic thoughts in this environment.

This is definitely the place for thinking outside of the box with heretic type thoughts followed by experiments however crude.

[Jannem]

This is definitely the place for thinking outside of the box with heretic type thoughts followed by experiments however crude.

That’s definitely what this is and I’m grateful for it. This is also about open sharing of ideas, which is why I feel a little guilty about this one.
But let’s see if it even works as it should first...

[Frits Overmars]

Packing the IP to the engine may partially also be a business decision. Protecting IP against few big engine manufacturers is better business that gazillion independent pipe builders. Having IP in the pipe may also reduce the aftermarket support and lose sales.

Jannem, I just re-read the last five pages and I still have no idea what IP stands for, honestly.
Remember this?

Jannem, abbreviations can easily lead to misunderstandings. When you mention a T-port, most people think of something like the yellow port below.

With that T-port I could still deduce that you meant a transfer port instead of a T-shaped exhaust port. But IP? It's an Italian petrol brand (ItaliaPetroleum),
but I don't suppose you're talking about fuel and I can't think of anything else that IP could stand for. I'm all for thinking outside of the box and you may be on to something, but...

[Haufen]

I thought he meant

Intellectual Property

with IP

[senso]

I'll check around.



Ha ha, no, USD70 Kitaco piston made in Japan. Chinese one wouldn't have lasted 10 tough hours.

I have been using Vertex pistons for a long time, they have some pretty nice ones for the CRM/NSR engines, large back cutout, single ring,I have ran one for 2 years(at least 900 litres of gas), always beating the snot out of the engine, what failed was the bottom end con-rod bearing.

They cost around 40€ here.

[Jannem]

I thought he meant

Intellectual Property

with IP

Yes, bad habits die hard, it seems.

[katinas]

Interesting, Suzuki used independent control for power valve and for torque chamber (ATAC) on they last years RGV 500. Very likely that they used two different servos.
Yamaha and KR3 used one shaft to control chamber and power valve at this time.

[husaberg]

Interesting, Suzuki used independent control for power valve and for torque chamber (ATAC) on they last years RGV 500. Very likely that they used two different servos.
Yamaha and KR3 used one shaft to control chamber and power valve at this time.

The later cagivas used an Atac chamber and a PV in tandem as well.

The Kenny Roberts JR era Suzukis were tuned as a YZR Yamaha same pipe design etc.
This was done with Suzukis approval.
They made no more power on the dyno but they lapped seconds faster.
Pretty sure Wob mention one version of the BSL500/3 had both Atac and power valves as well.
looking at the pics of the late RGV it looks like there might have been a chamber build in to the blade PV cavity using a cavity system of atac like they used on the early RG500 road bikes mixed with their two stage blades

The Honda beat scooter of the 80s had a foot pedal operated (to close atac chamber) The bike was ugly and looked like it was styled by Darth Vadar.They called it Vtacs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_FC50
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-st...m#Honda_V-TACS

[katinas]

[QUOTE=husaberg;1131088335]The later cagivas used an Atac chamber and a PV in tandem as well.

The Kenny Roberts JR era Suzukis were tuned as a YZR Yamaha same pipe design etc.
This was done with Suzukis approval.
They made no more power on the dyno but they lapped seconds faster.
Pretty sure Wob mention one version of the BSL500/3 had both Atac and power valves as well.
looking at the pics of the late RGV it looks like there might have been a chamber build in to the PV like a early RG500 road bike


Thanks,
Interesting, how looks from inside KR3 cylinders. Yamaha, Honda or other way.

[husaberg]

Interesting, how looks from inside KR3 cylinders. Yamaha, Honda or other way.

the pic a was refering to was on Kenny Jrs RGV it could have a cast alloy chamber like the RG500 it looks a lot more Bulky than the earlier cylinders.
Actually it looks maybe like a seperate bolt on Cast alloy chamber?
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/a...p?albumid=4848
Ps the round stubs on the headers are Det Buttons the cagiva had those as well as the Yamaha
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/s...post1130434380
late RGV500

Earlier RGV500

Kenny KR3 from memory had a couple of very different engine designs
here is some stuff.
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/a...hmentid=321627

other pics of RG500 Saec which is a cast in Atac system

[katinas]

Second time found this cylinder, from very old Russian chainsaw "Druzba", in my friend's garage. First time, it was 30 years ago, I didn't notice anything interesting, except chromed bore. But this time ........

[Lightbulb]

Many years ago, I made a test tuned pipe that had the header geometry that we wanted. Then at the high point or parallel portion, was where the tailcone end connected. This could be moved back and forth with the engine running at around full power for adjustment. The stinger was a size that worked from other test examples , and one of the stingers had like a collet geometry on it. So it could effectively reduce the area to change the internal pipe pressure.
As it did not close uniformly it kind of looked like a garden hose connection with gaps. Yes it did what we wanted to do at the time. But for the torque aspect we found out something different that was not directly related to the pipe on the front induction model engine that increased the torque similar to moving the tail cone back. That was a large radius in the ramp of the crank shaft in the induction tract. The other aspect that effected the torque, was accidentally having a matching a stinger at 8X the diameter that created a helmholtz resonance. It was not designed that way, it was learnt after it was made.
Having the outlet hole change and getting the pressure to 95 inches of water, resulted in a better overall performing pipe, than a pipe with a larger diameter stinger that was choked down to give 95 inches of water average pressure. Adding a restrictor to the stinger size that we liked to help gain torque, did not seem to give any gain in torque that we could measure, but did reduce the power at the top end, even though it still had the 95 inches of water average pipe pressure. The response time for the pipe length change for what we were doing at the time, it was not warranted to make an adjusting tailcone length pipe. We found it was easier to just make pipes with the same header geometry, and then make different length tailcone sets, and use them. But even that was confusing on race day, so just kept with the one that made the most torque, with acceptable top end power. looking back now, we really to work on a pipe that gave us more power in the over rev side of peak that did not drop off in power as drastically as the current one does. But there is always lots of 20/20 hindsight in pipe design and research that is for sure.

[Lightbulb]

On another note, This youtube video clip is from our onboard model engine flying in circles at about 275 km/h on control lines. Not fast really, but shows the head temp in deg C. For the model engine when it stopped it got to about 218C or so, but during the run is in the 203C range. The glow plug was looking like new. Anyway just want to show what micro electronics can do, and it is a real time screen capture of an Android phone using an external WiFi aerial on the model. Here is a picture of the data board with 2 thermistor and thermocouple K type inputs, but only using 1 thermistor for the head temp from a 0.8mm glass thermistor bulb, glued with JB weld and has artic silver thermal grease down the little hole. We have a pipe with a ktype thermocouple but have run out of time testing it so far. The engine only got to the low 39k rpm. When we get it correctly sorted it should be doing in the 295 km/h speed range with the engine in the 40k rpm to 40.3k
If no one is interested in this, just remove.

https://youtu.be/ttqQS0CMO1o