ESE's works engine tuner

[SS90]

The person who embarks on personal attacks is the one who does not want to defend the facts........

Why can't you answer reasonable questions? Like why did Buckets engine equal your best efforts when he used the plenum?

Put up your new dyno graph if you have one or go home.........

But it has not equalled my 2 year old engine.... Your confused...... How does your engine match mine?

Mine 19NM at 7400
Yours 14NM at 9500..... WTF?

the modified graph that Moooools posted says it all. (thanks for that Mooools!)

And, stop with the smoke and mirrors will you?...... You have not been able to explain why the new engine, with the Plenum produces less power than the old one with out a Plenum.

I am not making personal attacks TeeZee, not even close, you keep saying it works, onlookers at Hampton Downs say it did not.

[TZ350]

But it has not equalled my 2 year old engine.... Your confused...... How does your engine match mine?

Please post the up to date dyno graph of your rotary valve, air cooled, 125cc engine with the 24mm carb and I will show you how my engine match's it..........

The person who embarks on personal attacks is the one who does not want to defend the facts........

Why can't you answer reasonable questions? Like why did Buckets engine equal your best efforts when he used the plenum?

Put up your new dyno graph if you have one and add something to your own credibility or go home.........

Like I said before, why can't you answer a reasonable question? Like why did Buckets engine equal your best efforts when he used the plenum?

[SS90]

Please post the up to date dyno graph of your rotary valve, air cooled, 125cc engine with the 24mm carb and I will show you how my engine match's it..........



Like I said it before, why can't you answer a reasonable question? Like why did Buckets engine equal your best efforts when he used the plenum?

But it doesn't TeeZee. None of your engines match mine in any way.Your efforts to fustrate me, are amateur at best.

I'll give ya wee tip. Your exhaust designs where the power is lacking .... Ditch the computer programmes...... Get your own dyno (I think one of your previous plans was to build one ) and spend a few months with some sheet metal, a good EGT, and a sheet metal roller (clip joints are amazing here) and see what you come up with. The expansion chamber is the key.

Move the Karate suit, acoustic guitar, train set, and drum kit to the side...and make space for your latest incomplete project.

[Moooools]

Hhahahahaha,
So you are trying to tell us that an engine that produces DRAMATICALLY less torque at DRAMATICALLY higher RPM is a better engine?

Bwahahahahahah!

Who said anything about engines?!
Team ESE wins by default because they don't come across as ego stroking jackasses in every post.

[TZ350]

But it doesn't TeeZee. None of your engines match mine in any way.Your efforts to fustrate me, are amateur at best.

Move the Karate suit, acoustic guitar, train set, and drum kit to the side...and make space for your latest incomplete project.

As I said before.......

The person who embarks on personal attacks is the one who does not want to defend the facts........

Why can't you answer reasonable questions? Like why did Buckets engine equal your best efforts when he used the plenum?

Put up your new dyno graph if you have one and add something to your own credibility or go home.........

Why can't you answer a reasonable questions?

Like why did Buckets engine equal your best efforts when he used the plenum?

Why won't you put up a dynograph of your up to date engine?

Thats the real head scratcher...... it's not an unreasonable question.....

[TZ350]

No, what I mean is you seemingly had more power without the Plenum previously.....3 horsepower more it would seem.

I was wondering what the difference was, Thats what I don't understand.

I think Bucket has already answered that.......

Comparing the old engine, which is now in Chambers bike (72) with TeeZee’s new one (14) is not, Apples with apples and such things.

To get an idea if the plenum concept works, you have to test the same engine, with and without the plenum…

Mt Welly is more about drivability than power. When your not being childish you do sometimes make sense and ironically I was trying some of your ideas, Dad said they wouldn’t work, but I was pleased he gave me a free hand to try.

That's it test the same engine with and without the plenum and it does not take a genius to work out that he wasn't looking for power but spread and drivability. In real terms maybe it wasn't great but at least with the plenum it was the equal of SS90's own peaky graph......

To ask why it didn't make as much as mine was not unreasonable, but to keep harping on after being told the answer, thats when it become unreasonable........

Hands up anyone else who thinks that SS90 has wasted enough of our time.......

I would have liked this to be worthwhile but it takes two, so moving on......

[Leed]

.
.
your all havin me on right...

I started at Page 1 of this thread, read 70% bore

and jumped forward and saved myself 193 pages of dribbling non-sense

havent reliable two strokes (road bikes included) have had 80% bore ratios for over twenty years?

so tell me what page do I need to skip back to, to make some power before I fit my 39mm carbs to my 125cc cylinder??

Anyone want my new Vforce3 reeds for a Banshee (see advert on Bike Trader page of forum) or a spare pair of PWK 39mm if interested
.
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[TZ350]

In this class of racing F4, 125cc 2-strokes are limited to a 24mm carb and air cooling ......

Use "thread tools" near the top of the page then "view thread images", helps cut through the boring bits......

Inspite of the dribbling various people have posted some good stuff, looking through the pictures is a better way of finding it........

[Leed]

In this class of racing F4, 125cc 2-strokes are limited to a 24mm carb and air cooling ......

Use "thread tools" near the top of the page then "view thread images", helps cut through the boring bits......

Inspite of the dribble various people have posted some good stuff, looking through the pictures is a better way of finding it........

sweet thanks for the tips there - this forum has things a bit more complex in navigating and finding like minded topic is tricky - I saw several here had RG50 and assumed in general you were also talking water cooled motors...

I wont comment on the pages I read on what is a balance factor etc because
if you dont have to relocate a web pin (stroke), change rod length, compensate for lighter or heavier pistons, crank phasing or use other parts in place of parts no longer available, you need never worry about getting a PHD on the subject and would just run what was on the bike originally

[speedpro]

....I wont comment on the pages I read on what is a balance factor etc etc because if you dont have to relocate a web pin (stroke), change rod length, compensate for lighter or heavier pistons or use other parts in place of parts no longer available you need never worry about getting the degree on the subject

Unless . . . you are revving it a lot more than it was designed for.

FYI - I've reduced the stroke, have a longer rod, different piston, removed the counter-balance shaft, and rev it heaps higher. Apart from that it's just like when Mr honda built it.

[richban]

Have you guys looked at a conventional plenum in front of the carb. I was wanting to make an adjustable one to tune on the dyno but never did. I read somewhere that with a properly resonating airbox/plenum you can achieve 130% intake efficiency. That way you could get rid of the pod filter you were going to run. I have a large dislike for pod filters. Just a thought.

[Leed]

someone is bound to have a Helmholtz arithmatic sum lying around they no longer have use for



does a bucket stop being a bucket once the cylinder is of a certain capacity

or just when you stop needing an arc welder?

[TZ350]

Have you guys looked at a conventional plenum in front of the carb. I was wanting to make an adjustable one to tune on the dyno but never did. I read somewhere that with a properly resonating airbox/plenum you can achieve 130% intake efficiency. That way you could get rid of the pod filter you were going to run. I have a large dislike for pod filters. Just a thought.

Yes I think your right, that there are gains to be made and if you have a programmable ignition that can control a power valve stepping motor you could use that to make a resonating airbox that's resonant frequency was adjusted to match the rev's.

But you would still be stuck with the problem that only so much air can be forced through 24mm. At a certain velocity (mach number) the carb chokes and no amount of increased pressure can force any more through any faster.

The idea behind our plenum is that the engine gets to suck air/fuel from a large volume through a larger 30'ishmm inlet and as the motor only sucks for half the time the 24mm carb at WOT has all the time to re-fill the plenum and ineffect could flow twice the air to the engine than a conventional 24mm side carb can.

Of course, twice as much = twice the power, well it doesn't quite work out like that in reality but Buckets dyno graph showed that the plenum added some useful gains and lifted the torque curve of his motor. It makes sense that a longer flatter torque curve is much more drivable than a peaky one......

I can see a variable resonating air box being an interesting idea, now that could be plan "B" or the next project after we get the plenum sorted...........thanks for the idea.

[Leed]

what is that diagram trying to say...

the airbox has a 250cc volume?
its the motor that is 250cc?
the engine is sucking from dia34mm?

[TZ350]

what is that diagram trying to say...

the airbox has a 250cc volume?
its the motor that is 250cc?
the engine is sucking from dia34mm?

Class regulation, restrictive 24mm carb feeding 250cc plenum, 125cc motor sucking from plenum through 34mm inlet tract. In theory motor is not restricted by 24mm carb........

Brilliant huh..... and the first working example was seen here, in NZ, the world center of 2-stroke innovation......