ESE's works engine tuner

[lucf]

Of course my bad.
what i meant was that 50cc at 17600rpm has a transmission loss of 1.1hk sounds a bit short?

I don't care about an exact number for resistance.
The only thing that counts here is the equation.
All is equal in hp/resistance/surface/rpm

[SwePatrick]

All is equal in hp/resistance/surface/rpm.

And thereby your calculations is bull.

[lucf]

And thereby your calculations is bull.

I can't help you don't understand

[wobbly]

And right there Luc we have the crux of all the issues that a huge number of people all around the world seem to have with so much of what you say, in many forums.
Its NOT that we dont understand at all, you narcissistic fuck,its that you are not explaining it at all well ( or in most cases ,not explaining it at all ).

[Muhr]

I don't care about an exact number for resistance.
The only thing that counts here is the equation.
All is equal in hp/resistance/surface/rpm.

It's a way of seeing it. Something else I see, as a possible problem is that after 125cc, you will pretty fast get in to problem with space to achieve enough time area. (you probably need to crush RAS's flow efficiency to achieve the numbers you posted) Or am I wrong?

[lucf]

Jan is not blocked,

That´s what some people like to tell, who are blocked themselves, because they are not honest.
And such guys I don´t want to see anymore, untill they will speak the real truth.
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/s...post1131082527

With Jan I´m on speaking terms, we shake hands beginning this year, so no problem with him.

About Ryger, I´m not allowed to tell anything about it. And it´s not my wish that it took so long.

How about this Wobbly? soon as possible forgotten ?

[wobbly]

Before I answer I will talk to Jan directly.
I am not as friendly and accommodating as he is,so dont get your hopes up just yet.

[SwePatrick]

I can't help you don't understand

I have noticed you live in a theory world.
You simulate this and that in different programs.

I own MOTA myself, and i can see similar things as you when simulating some combo.
If a minor parameter is set wrong the power can raise through the roof easily.
Things aren´t that easy in real world.
The MOTA program doesn´t care about too high compression for example, power raises all the time when adding compression.
If engine is producing 50hp at 15-1 compression, it produces 60hp at 20-1 compression, but it isn´t possible in real world to use that, you´re just fooling yourself.
One need to go into the data check if Bmep etc etc is at acheivable and safe levels.
I get the feeling this is where your ryger gets that power from, that is so jawdropping(as you explained).
Then to make it more trustworthy you take the data and put it in an excelsheet.

If i take my 72hp petrol simulation in MOTA and just change it to methanol, the power raise up above 100hp.
Way off what´s possible in the real world.
More likely the power would be 82-84hp if everything works as it should.

This is just an example of how easy one can mess up simulations if one do not have the sense of what´s happening in the real world.
And as you don´t care about drivetrainlosses tells me you aren´t serious, and thereby you simulations is bull(shit), nothing to spend time on.

[lucf]

I have noticed you live in a theory world.
You simulate this and that in different programs.

I own MOTA myself, and i can see similar things as you when simulating some combo.
If a minor parameter is set wrong the power can raise through the roof easily.
Things aren´t that easy in real world.
The MOTA program doesn´t care about too high compression for example, power raises all the time when adding compression.
If engine is producing 50hp at 15-1 compression, it produces 60hp at 20-1 compression, but it isn´t possible in real world to use that, you´re just fooling yourself.
One need to go into the data check if Bmep etc etc is at acheivable and safe levels.
I get the feeling this is where your ryger gets that power from, that is so jawdropping(as you explained).
Then to make it more trustworthy you take the data and put it in an excelsheet.

If i take my 72hp petrol simulation in MOTA and just change it to methanol, the power raise up above 100hp.
Way off what´s possible in the real world.
More likely the power would be 82-84hp if everything works as it should.

This is just an example of how easy one can mess up simulations if one do not have the sense of what´s happening in the real world.
And as you don´t care about drivetrainlosses tells me you aren´t serious, and thereby you simulations is bull(shit), nothing to spend time on.

In 1968 I was with my private Kreidler 5 speed in the headgroup of the 50cc Dutch TT Assen as fast as:
Suzuki 50 cc of Anscheidt - Jamathi of Paul Lodewijks - 12V Kreidlers of Aalt Toersen and Jan de Vries.
https://www.facebook.com/luc.foekema...5454134&type=3

So no practice experience?
And what do you want to learn me about what symulation at all?
I did have many teachers like you, but I think you must be realy stupid to think I need them?

[Gremlin]

This is a valuable thread with many hours of contributions and discussions from around the world.

The moderators will not tolerate this thread descending into personal abuse, so if you have nothing of value to contribute to the topic at hand don't bother posting.

[TZ350]

Luc is number 19, 1968 Assen TT



Short clip, it is worth looking at it just to hear the 50cc engines in full flight.

I would love to hear more technical insights, not just how good Luc see's himself but real mechanical and design details that we can think about and apply to our own tuning and development efforts.

[lucf]

This is a valuable thread with many hours of contributions and discussions from around the world.

The moderators will not tolerate this thread descending into personal abuse, so if you have nothing of value to contribute to the topic at hand don't bother posting.

You are right, Thanks Gremlin !!

[JanBros]

You are right, Thanks Gremlin !!

maar de gigantische blok hout in je eigen oog zie je weer niet ???


translated : just telling Luc in dutch it was also meant for him, but of course he doesn't see it that way. 'cause he is still the best and everybody still loves him

[SwePatrick]

I´m not trying to teach =)
I´m just trying to say that digital numbers in a software isn´t to be trusted, certanly when 'operator of the software' doesn´t care about some essential data to get numbers in the ballpark.

One need to back those numbers up with a real life dyno to get peoples attention and respect.

I have also simulated the Aprilia RSW/RSA in MOTA and got about the same powercurve, but it´s lacking a couple of horses, it says 52 crankhorses at peak.
They dynoed it 54 sprocket horses.
But if i try to acheive the same number with altering things from the blueprints the curve freaks out.
And by that i get to the conclusion that different programmes can´t simulate real life.
You can get close, but that´s all.

So, never trust those programs fully.

[Muhr]

I think if people can stick with telling their own experiences and be humble with that other may have different experiences. I think one can avoid many unnecessary discussions.
Lucf I am still very interested in hearing more about your conclusion that rear wheel power is the same per cc and crank revolution regardless of cylinder volume. You have also added a hp to some graphs, which would be interesting to know more about.