ESE's works engine tuner

[Norman]

Close but no cigar, injectors are angling into the cylinder with this patent. where as with the product they now sell the injectors clearly fire back down the B transfer ports toward the incoming air, just like our YZ.
I don't think they show a patent because they can't, the technology has been 'free to air' (prier knowledge) since early 2013, on the bloody internet for all to see. The firing down the transfer port toward the incoming air from the crankcase is the key. Somewhere to store the extra fuel when transfer port open/flow time is not as long as injector on time. This also helps furnish the A port with fuel higher up in the revs, on the pipe. The key is the injector position and the fact it fires back down the port. KTM know that now.

I agree, reading through the 2002 patent they are close but they did not at the time really catch and understand how to do it in your elegant way. Very very good. The way they express themselves in their patent I do not think your solution will intrude their patent.

[Muhr]

Maybe the reeds can't be bothered to close at 273 Hz. With the right combination {crankcase volume + inlet duct diameter + inlet duct length} they won't need to .

Yes, maybe V-force was before you with a finished product without knowing about it.

Crank or rear wheel?

Standing wave can occur at almost any frequenzy, just study 4th order bassbox
Not to say that the engine has that frequenz, but as a statement that this is very dynamic, and as i said, 'stumbeling'.
Nothing is calculated in the reed.
One almost cannot calculate a reedvalve as the speeding air acts as a spring also, and by that disturbs all calculations.
Calculate a reed at stationary air inside/outside the cage, fine! i can recognize that.

One just has to rape the laws of theory sometimes to get an 'aha' moment.

Can't remember but it was direkt drive so.

"4th order bassbox" do you mean an audio speaker?

[SwePatrick]

Yes, a speaker =)
Many kartdynos are testing on the crank.

However!
36.2hp/15800rpm today, but.... Rod broke.
Engine is junk. =(

[Frits Overmars]

maybe V-force was before you with a finished product without knowing about it.

I doubt that Muhr. I don't know when Tassinari started producing its Vforce reeds, but I do know that my first 24/7 prototype dates from the previous millennium .


Joking apart, I think it's possible that a conventional reed starts behaving like a 24/7 inlet when the engine frequency rises above the reed's natural frequency,
but it will still offer a lot of flow resistance. Better swing the reeds out of the way altogether.

[Muhr]

I doubt that Muhr. I don't know when Tassinari started producing its Vforce reeds, but I do know that my first 24/7 prototype dates from the previous millennium .


Joking apart, I think it's possible that a conventional reed starts behaving like a 24/7 inlet when the engine frequency rises above the reed's natural frequency,
but it will still offer a lot of flow resistance. Better swing the reeds out of the way altogether.

I couldn't resist!
Think you are right. the question is just how efficient it is?
Maybe I can get a picture of it in the future, maybe even 24/7 !? Would be fun.

[jonny quest]

Vforce came out right around 1990. I had done some of the early prototype testing for him.

[DoldGuy]

2012, YZ250. Took KTM a while but they eventually caught up

Flettner,

Could you illustrate how the A Port & the Boost Port are fed from just the single injector in the B Port? Would there be any benefit having additional injectors in the A Ports?

[jasonu]

Close but no cigar, injectors are angling into the cylinder with this patent. where as with the product they now sell the injectors clearly fire back down the B transfer ports toward the incoming air, just like our YZ.
I don't think they show a patent because they can't, the technology has been 'free to air' (prier knowledge) since early 2013, on the bloody internet for all to see. The firing down the transfer port toward the incoming air from the crankcase is the key. Somewhere to store the extra fuel when transfer port open/flow time is not as long as injector on time. This also helps furnish the A port with fuel higher up in the revs, on the pipe. The key is the injector position and the fact it fires back down the port. KTM know that now.

Email them. You might get a free t shirt.

[F5 Dave]

Be orange though

[Flettner]

They know who I am, Rodney O'Connor did an article on the EFI YZ middle 2013 for Kiwi Rider. He used to work at KTM, Austria before this. He said he had seen the EFI that they were working on (direct injected, Orbital) and had a friend working in that department, still had correspondence with KTM. I do believe he sent pictures and information on the YZ project back to KTM. He certainly did send them the Kiwi Rider magazine, he told me.
That was about the time KTM had come up against a brick wall with their development.
You can't tell me they didn't copy our YZ project. And they don't have to pay any patent royalties, win win for KTM.
But that does mean the likes of TM can also use this system, nothing stopping TM. We have been in contact.

You know it gets even murkier, I had heaps of pictures and information on TSM web site with in depth explanations of how I designed and built both the F9 and the YZ, Termed it Transfer Port Injection (TPI) and pointed out how the next step was pressure sampling of crank case ( I believe that is what KTM are doing now) . This TSM web site was hacked about this time and completely fucked. It's only just been restarted again years later. Lots missing. Coincidence? Who knows, but you have to wonder.

I do believe this TPI is just breathing space technology, they needed somthing quick and cheap for Euro4.
KTM are not to worried about protecting this technology as shortly it will be out dated anyway. If they want to keep running twostroke's they will need somthing way more sophisticated than TPI. KTM are either working on this now or this is the end of the road for the twostroke. Stick to fourstroke s until electric comes of age. When? when there is a leap forward in battery energy storage, getting better but we are not there yet.

[ken seeber]

I do believe this TPI is just breathing space technology, they needed somthing quick and cheap for Euro4.
KTM are not to worried about protecting this technology as shortly it will be out dated anyway. If they want to keep running twostroke's they will need somthing way more sophisticated than TPI. KTM are either working on this now or this is the end of the road for the twostroke. Stick to fourstroke s until electric comes of age. When? when there is a leap forward in battery energy storage, getting better but we are not there yet.

Well, a couple of comments:

1. In Vietnam went chasing TZ350's Thomas (see Page 1 of ESE) but couldn't find him. TeeZee ???? Maybe he was just out for the day, but certainly industrious.



2. In Saigon, a city of 10,000,000 there are 8,000,000 bikes. In terms of 2 strokes, out of all that, I only saw a couple of early Vespas, a Lambretta and a Simson. However, there are a lot of elec bikes, mainly smaller stuff though.



So, we'd better get a move on with emission and fuel consumption reductions.

[SwePatrick]

My new cylinderproject is coming along nicely.

New 6082 liner installed.
Bored it out yesterday to fit the piston, 66,37mm, the remaining up to 66.41 i´ll let the nikasilplaters do.

Now i can put engine together and set the timings perfectly before plating.
There are still some holes to drill into the water jacket.

[Juho_]

Yes, a speaker =)
Many kartdynos are testing on the crank.

However!
36.2hp/15800rpm today, but.... Rod broke.
Engine is junk. =(

Did the rod itself actually break ?
Do you know what crankshaft or conrod was used?

YZ80 rods have been very reliable on my motors.
From mitaka / prox they are also very cheap.
90 and 94mm lengths available.
18mm big end pin.

[SwePatrick]

Did the rod itself actually break ?
Do you know what crankshaft or conrod was used?

YZ80 rods have been very reliable on my motors.
From mitaka / prox they are also very cheap.
90 and 94mm lengths available.
18mm big end pin.

Yes, it snapped off just under the wristpin.
The crank was a Parmakit, myself think it isn´t top notch.
And, engine has been revved hard also in some pulls on dyno by mistake.



I think it´s actually fully repairable and the crank is almost unhurt, change of a rod to a high end rod(we have got a Samarin laying on a shelf)

[Juho_]

Yes, parmakit does not really have a good reputation on their products..

It's quite unusual to break the rod, but revving more than 17,000rpm(?) is also unusual with such as heavy piston.

The cylinder looks like it survived better than would expect after breaking the rod.
Even tho it requires 'some' welding and replating.