ESE's works engine tuner

[TZ350]

Roost

https://www.facebook.com/pg/Roost-exhaust-systems-264059023656148/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1008873025841407

Ok, I found their face book page. Interesting stuff.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=ms.c.eJw1yNENgFAMAsCNDLRQ6v6LGaPvPo~%3BmWFqsE DsX~%3B4gRFU9M~_w3MfULLCKn~_ws1aYVJ~_ANPsEQI~-.bps.a.1516544791740892.1073741846.264059023656148&type=1

Speed Factory

https://www.facebook.com/Speed.Factory.Shop?fref=nf

https://www.speed-factory.net/tuning...iaggio-lc-4101

Kits, cylinders and pipes.

https://www.speed-factory.net/schnellauswahl/

The F4 Bucket class rules allow 100cc 2T water cooled (with 110cc max re bore allowance) or 70cc 2T with Turbo or Supercharging.



A 70cc 24-28hp Roost cylinder fitted to my Suzuki GP100 motor with a special short stroke crank should leave lots of supercharged volume in the crankcase and with a turbo blowing through the original air cleaner inlet on the back of the motor we could have something very interesting. I am going to consult my credit card to see if the project is possible. Team ESE already has a suitable turbo. Could this be the makings of the first 40hp Bucket???

I was once accused of ruining Buckets by making it to hard for others to compete, because essentially, I studied two stroke tuning and did the work others wouldn't. But it turns out, all you need is a good credit card.

[timg]

I was once accused of ruining Buckets by making it to hard for others to compete, because essentially, I studied two stroke tuning and did the work others wouldn't. But it turns out, all you need is a good credit card.

LOL now you'll be accused of being a chequebook racer like me

[TZ350]

With all the stuff we make, you and I and a few others couldn't be further from chequebook racing, if we tried......

[SwePatrick]

Minarelli, Aprilia AM6 and Scooter aftermarket cylinders are not very common here in New Zealand so I don't know much about them.

I would love to know more about the Roost Havoc cylinder, its exhaust and transfer timings and the pipe that you used.

If I knew what to look for I guess it would be pretty easy to buy a cylinder or two and pipe over the net. I would love to try one on my rotary valve engine.

And if anyone knew of a current performance 50cc cylinder kit and pipe I would love to hear about those too.

We raised the cylinder a little bit to get a little bit more timing, i have to ask what timings it is std.

We were hunting for 38-38.5hp(e85), and will pick up this ball again soon.
It actually gave us more power with 32mm carb than a 34mm, 36.2hp is our current best yet.

If wanting to buy a roost cylinder, make sure you are patient enough to wait.
It´s a small company and he doesnt massproduce.
We waited ~8 months

He also makes a 100cc version with external studs, theese cylinders has been dynoed above 40hp(ported)

As we speak, tomorrow an another friend coming to visit me.
I´m helping him build a piaggio twin roost 100cc. (we are waiting for 2nd cylinder)
200cc in total.
It will be a beast =)

[TZ350]

.
Thanks, I saw the external stud version and wondered what they may be like.

Please keep posting about your projects progress.

[koba]

Any recommendations for a decent degree wheel/protractor?
I thought I'd bought the 'last a lifetime' type and shelled out too much money for one that has had half of the graduations flake off.

Laser etched numbers would appear to be the way to go but everything I see it way pricey given what it costs to produce that kind of stuff today.
Might be easier to commission or make a batch.

Thoughts?

[richban]

Any recommendations for a decent degree wheel/protractor?
I thought I'd bought the 'last a lifetime' type and shelled out too much money for one that has had half of the graduations flake off.

Laser etched numbers would appear to be the way to go but everything I see it way pricey given what it costs to produce that kind of stuff today.
Might be easier to commission or make a batch.

Thoughts?

Nice and sturdy. Also its recycling.

[wobbly]

Here is what I use - simple to mount with a 6mm shaft.
Cheap as chips and accurate to 1/10*.
Easy angle measure from TDC or duration with a port stop.
Would never go back to a disc.

https://www.machine-dro.co.uk/rotary...ter-shaft.html

And a coupling to mount it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-6-6-35-8m...lmXpb7npROfsOA

[TZ350]

.
This is what Team ESE uses ....



Plastic protractor glued onto a metal disk. Cheap as chips from any stationary store.

Here is what I use - Would never go back to a disc.

https://www.machine-dro.co.uk/rotary...ter-shaft.html

And a coupling to mount it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-6-6-35-8m...lmXpb7npROfsOA

I love the look of that encoder.....

[TZ350]

.
Another good reason to water cool the outside of the transfer ducts.



Interesting how far down the transfer ducts the staining stretches from combustion gases marking the transfer walls on this cylinder from a Honda NSR250. You can see why a cylinder overheats when there is insufficient blowdown time area for the reves being pulled.

I remember Speedpro talking about being able to look down the carburetor on one of his bikes being run up on the dyno and see fire dancing in the crankcase.

[TZ350]

Aircooled Suzuki GP125 cylinder.



Porting my aircooled GP125 cylinder.



The big gains were in opening up the rear transfer ports and setting the ex to open at 80 atdc and 72% width.



30rwhp

[TZ350]

Standard Honda NSR250 cylinder.....



I had always been impressed by all this porting loverlyness and expecting great things I replaced the GP's air cooled cylinder with one of these NSR 250 cylinders. The cylinder was arranged so the Ex port opens 80 atdc. The same as the Suzuki GP air cooled cylinder.



Touching 30rwhp.

So all that factory port loverlyness was no better than my home grown porting efforts on the Suzuki GP125 cylinder. Not what I was expecting.

[husaberg]

Standard Honda NSR250 cylinder.....
A solid 29rwhp.

So all that factory port loverlyness was no better than my home grown porting efforts on the Suzuki GP125 cylinder. Not what I was expecting.

Keep the dyno running and see just how much of those 30HP are still there a minute or two later with the Air cooled cylinder vs the water cooled STD NSR cylinder.
Also bear in mind that with a few less cc on the liquid cooled model you could have run an open carb size as well.
Were the RC valves operational on the Liquid cooled dyno run.

[TZ350]

Keep the dyno running and see just how much of those 30HP are still there a minute or two later with the Air cooled cylinder

I cant remember what the experiment was but the power held up Ok on the dyno for several runs. But you are right, the ponies soon lost enthusiasm after a few laps on the track.

Also bear in mind that with a few less cc on the liquid cooled model you could have run an open carb size as well.

Like factory porting loverlyness I am not sure a bigger carb would be any improvement. But in a way I think you could be right, there could be more power if I destroked to 100 cc because the shorter stroke would naturally increase the blow down time area of the standard NSR cylinder.

Were the RC valves operational on the Liquid cooled dyno run.

Yes, and carefully adjusted on the dyno too.

I was surprised they were not more effective at plumping up the curve. But the std ones have large gaps at the sides. I expect they will be better when I get around to welding and reshaping a pair to fit better.

[husaberg]

Yes, and carefully adjusted on the dyno. I was surprised they were not more effective but the std ones have large gaps at the sides. I expect they will be better when I get around to welding and reshaping a pair to fit better.

The factory race RC valves have the pivot mounted further away from the bore thus during their arc the sealing edge follows the bore more closely.