ESE's works engine tuner

[peewee]

thnx mate. maybe somebody could find it usefull. with the amount of people using these carbs for methanol you would think lectron would of just made their own larger float valves. the inlet nipple and passage to the float valve is suprising small also. makes no sense

[philou]

I found this picture

Honda 125 NSR JC20/22

[TZ350]

Thanks philou ... interesting pic.

[dutchpower]

Again positive tests with KTM SX 65 "rounded piston" on track. Today first place in qualification, at first round of European junior championship in Ukraine.

Beter have that place in Loket ( 21-07-2018 )

Then SE /SW/NE/NW best top 10 coming together for EMX 65 champion ship

NW is the strongest group

[katinas]

Beter have that place in Loket ( 21-07-2018 )

Then SE /SW/NE/NW best top 10 coming together for EMX 65 champion ship

NW is the strongest group

Today, again good race with "rounded piston", first win in NE group. We are very surprised.

[wax]

Here is a question unrelated to single cylinder buckets but i think its the best place in the world to ask.
Im setting up an engine, it is a triple engine with three lumps on the flywheel and one pickup.
The zeeltronic ignition i have would run it but it would fire every time it sees a lump. So that would mean three sparks per cylinder per revolution.
Two of i am not concerned about. The one firing at just before tdc is the one i want of course. The next is when the piston is 120 degrees down the cylinder heading down. The one that has me worried is the one at 240 degrees of crankshaft revolution. Ie 60 degrees of the stroke when the piston is coming up. I know the compression is very low at this point and it may not be an issue Heck the exhaust port would still be open. The one i am worried about would most likely be firing about 225 degrees at the latest when you consider the advance in the equation. Whats every ones thoughts on this. Jan, wobbly ,all you other boffins

[TZ350]

The one firing at just before tdc is the one i want of course. The next is when the piston is 120 degrees down the cylinder heading down. The one that has me worried is the one at 240 degrees of crankshaft revolution. Ie 60 degrees of the stroke when the piston is coming up.

If I understand this right......

180 - 60 = 120

120 plus 5 to 20 deg advance = 125 to 140 BTDC

So wasted spark is firing 140 deg BTDC and we know that wasted sparks firing at 200 BTDC are not a problem. I would be tempted to give it a go. Whats the worst that can happen? A bit of a Whoooosh out of the carb and exhaust. Any problems should show up pretty quickly before any engine damage.

[wax]

If I understand this right......

180 - 60 = 120

120 plus 20 deg advance = 140

So wasted spark is firing 140 deg BTDC and we know that wasted sparks firing at 200 BTDC are not a problem. I would be tempted to give it a go. Whats the worst that can happen? A bit of a Whoooosh out of the carb and exhaust. Any problems should show up pretty quickly before any engine damage.

Yes but its firing earlier in the stroke btdc so you would subtract the advance not add it wouldn't you.

[TZ350]

I have been working hard to get the Suzuki GP/NSR110 setup along the lines Wobbly has suggested. Here I am trying to get the compression, squish and port timing correct.



In an effort to get the high compression called for and a troidal head shape I machined the original NSR head back as far as it is possible to go.

With the shorter stroke crank the spigot is necessary because you can only shorten the cylinder so far before running out of sealing area around the top edge of the cylinder.



The center is pretty ugly and the plug is surprisingly recessed, they must be recessed like this on all the NSR250 heads.

To get the plug further into the cylinder and so more in the turbulent gas area a projected nose plug would be the go.

If anyone knows of a projected nose resistor equivalent for the NGK BR10E's heat range, I would love to hear about them.

[wobbly]

TeeZee, why have you mentioned the port timing - I did not change it from the original spec.
All I did was put a radius on the bore edge/transfer duct entry in the input as this has a better flow coefficient - Aprilia did this for a reason.

Looking at the head,it would be simple to spot face the plug seal surface,to get the plug body slightly protruding into the chamber.
And of course you know what im gong to say about the plug type.

Re the triple with 3 lobes and one pickup.I have heard of this being done before, apparently with no issue.
But of course the CDI sees this as 3x the rpm. so coil charge time is limited at high rpm.
Ask Mr Zeel if he can reflash the chip, to use the system that is easily selected in an Ignitech CDI P4.
Cylinder 1 lobe can be slotted to make two lobes, the trailing edge of this double lobe identifies cylinder one,the next lobe is cylinder 2 the next cylinder 3 - but of course you need 3 cdi circuits.

[TZ350]

And of course you know what I am going to say about the plug type.

Didn't want to confuse the search for a projected nose plug by specifying more than the size, reach, resistor and heat range.

Looking at the head,it would be simple to spot face the plug seal surface,to get the plug body slightly protruding into the chamber.

Will look at that, I will have to be careful not to go too deep and expose a bit of plug thread on one side.

TeeZee, why have you mentioned the port timing - I did not change it from the original spec.

No but building a new engine that matches the original specs requires some care.

To keep the original bike on the track, I am building up a new engine (it may take a while) to the original specs plus the planed improvements based on the EngMod simulation and will swap it in when I am finished. It is no easy thing to get the port timing (cylinder height position), squish and compression ratio right because any changes in one interact with the others.

original engine that the porting specs and EngMod simulation is based on.

new engine being built to the original specs plus the planned improvements.

[wobbly]

Any projected nose plug will have a horrible long, thick ground electrode.
Dont even think about using one - I have seen many of the Iridium EIX plugs drop the fat ground electrode off and wreak havoc the instant you see a little deto.
Real race plugs like the 7376 have a platinum fine wire that is laser welded to the body, its one reason they are expensive - but way cheaper than a rebuild and I
have never seen or heard of a fine wire dropping off.

If you are worried about the plug body exposed threads ,then the alloy exposed threads of the head are just as likely to overheat and cause pre ignition or deto issues.
To my way of thinking welding up the angled existing threads and putting in a new straight setup would make all the problems go away.

[husaberg]

I have been working hard to get the Suzuki GP/NSR110 setup along the lines Wobbly has suggested. Here I am trying to get the compression, squish and port timing correct.

In an effort to get the high compression called for and a troidal head shape I machined the original NSR head back as far as it is possible to go.

With the shorter stroke crank the spigot is necessary because you can only shorten the cylinder so far before running out of sealing area around the top edge of the cylinder.

The center is pretty ugly and the plug is surprisingly recessed, they must be recessed like this on all the NSR250 heads.

To get the plug further into the cylinder and so more in the turbulent gas area a projected nose plug would be the go.

If anyone knows of a projected nose resistor equivalent for the NGK BR10E's heat range, I would love to hear about them.

One way arround the angled plug is to cut the top off and weld in an incert



http://forums.everything2stroke.com/...he-Shop/page46


Another is to use a NSR125 Cylinder head which is a straight plug
However to use that you have to use a NSR125 Cylinder as well for some reason the head bolt pattern is different from the 250.
(Bren learnt this after i said no i think it will fit)
Some models of the NSR are restricted and i don't really know how well the others stack up against the MC 16/18/21
the bottom stud partern is the same but the water cooling deck is slightly different.
I do have some port maps somewhere.

[wax]

TeeZee, why have you mentioned the port timing - I did not change it from the original spec.
All I did was put a radius on the bore edge/transfer duct entry in the input as this has a better flow coefficient - Aprilia did this for a reason.

Looking at the head,it would be simple to spot face the plug seal surface,to get the plug body slightly protruding into the chamber.
And of course you know what im gong to say about the plug type.

Re the triple with 3 lobes and one pickup.I have heard of this being done before, apparently with no issue.
But of course the CDI sees this as 3x the rpm. so coil charge time is limited at high rpm.
Ask Mr Zeel if he can reflash the chip, to use the system that is easily selected in an Ignitech CDI P4.
Cylinder 1 lobe can be slotted to make two lobes, the trailing edge of this double lobe identifies cylinder one,the next lobe is cylinder 2 the next cylinder 3 - but of course you need 3 cdi circuits.

it already has 3 cdi circuits so thats not an issue. However if you decide to use one pick up it then fires all three at the same time.
Thanks wobbly
Im pulling 8000 so i guess thats the same as 24000 rpm for the coil so quite a bit

[lodgernz]

One way arround the angled plug is to cut the top off and weld in an incert
Another is to use a NSR125 Cylinder head which is a straight plug
However to use that you have to use a NSR125 Cylinder as for some reason the head bolt pattern is different.
(Bren learnt this after i said no i think it will fit)
Some models of the NSR are restricted and i don't really know how well the others stack up against the MC 16/18/21
the bottom stud partern is the same but the water cooling deck is slightly different.
I do have some port maps somewhere.

Or one of these:
https://www.vhm.nl/en/catalog/engine.../g+c+a+nr+view

If you contact Matt at Tyga, he can possibly get you one, so you don't have to buy the pair. Still expensive, but solves that problem.