ESE's works engine tuner

[saxet]

your full of crap F5 can you understand that

Well can you explain what you mean please.

[Sully60]

your full of crap F5 can you understand that

Dude, I think you need to check that attitude at the door. TeeZeeThreeFiddy has a wicked thread going here with some very usefull discussion going on, are you trying to detract from that? If so tell us now so we can get your posts moved somewhere else.

If you don't have a good grasp of what's being discussed that's fine. I have some understanding of the concepts being dicussed in this thread but being a dirty diesel (that means 4-stroke BTW) tuner I don't have the practical knowledge to contribute to the technical aspects of this thread. If I'm unsure about the details of the discussion I will pose a considered question.

You need to be aware that guys like F5Dave and Speedpro have been at this caper for years, this stuff is running in their blood, so their replies to a less considered technical posts may seem somewhat condescending, don't take it personally!

The bucket forum on KB is usually free of the shit slinging that goes on in the wider forum, yes we have some fairly pointed banter going on at times but we leave it alone when the day is done, just like on track rivalry.
Please don't bring things down to the level of the general forums, I'd like to think that we're better than that.

[gav]

Well said Sully60, I'll leave my moderators hat at the door for now.
Maybe Craisin, you can start your own thread, so we can try and keep this thread pretty much on track. Congrats to TZ350, sounds like you might be onto something!

[Buddha#81:Me]

Dude, I think you need to check that attitude at the door.

Stink one Sully, I was looking forward to where that was going.........TZ350 lost me with the two smoker mumbo jumbo in the first page and was fooling myself reading on. Craisin was giving 2 smoker witchcraft some spark......... Fair nuff, rack off craisin!

[TZ350]

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A couple of interesting lines I copied from an automotive engineering book.

"Engine cylinders must be cooled to maintain a lubricant film on the cylinder walls and other sliding surfaces. The cylinders, heads, pistons and exhaust valves are cooled to prevent combustion knock or destruction of these parts due to over heating.

The heat removed from the engine by the cooling system is 25% to 35% on full load and may run as high as 40% on one third load.
An increase in speed reduces the heat lost to the cooling system.

60% of the cooling flow is directed to the cylinder and 40% to the head. The permissible compression ratio and output of air cooled aero engines depends on the efficiency of cooling of the cylinder head and have long fins 25mm to 50mm closely spaced 2.5mm to 5mm."

Interesting especially the close spacing of the fins. I could possibly make a head from a block of alloy with copper fins pressed into it.

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[Yow Ling]

aircraft cylinder heads are close spaced, heads on the old radial engines were cut using a slitting saw on a mill, Ill go look for a picture

[Sully60]

aircraft cylinder heads are close spaced, heads on the old radial engines were cut using a slitting saw on a mill, Ill go look for a picture

Holy cow, I didn't realise that.

That would mean a lot of swarf from one of these!

[Yow Ling]

Here is said picture, its not an average milling machine but you should be able to get the idea

[koba]

Wow thats very interesting,
Quick search and...

BMW801 had a cooling fan too.

Prat and Whitney R1830

Nakajima Sakae

Shvetsov ASh-82

Wright R-2600

Bristol Hercules

Fiat A.74

I see this close finning especially on the BMW.
All very interesting reading too.

[TZ350]

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Koba. Great Pictures of air cooled finning. That BMW is a work of art. It gets one thinking about the possibilities of making a close finned head with a thermostatically controlled cooling fan and possibly inserting more copper cooling fins between the alloy barrel fins.
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[Fooman]

Wow thats very interesting,
Quick search and...

BMW801 had a cooling fan too.

...

Erm, most air cooled radial piston aircraft engines had a cooling fan in front. They also used it to generate forward thrust...

Having said that, towards the end of the war, the (liquid cooled) Merlin/Griffon engines in the Spitfire used radiators so cleverly designed (in terms of flow through the heat exchanger and the exhaust diffuser) that the underwing radiators generated something like 150 lb's of thrust by themselves.

Cheers,
FM

[bucketracer]

Erm, most air cooled radial piston aircraft engines had a cooling fan in front. They also used it to generate forward thrust...

Good Point FM

Having said that, towards the end of the war, the (liquid cooled) Merlin/Griffon engines in the Spitfire used radiators so cleverly designed (in terms of flow through the heat exchanger and the exhaust diffuser) that the underwing radiators generated something like 150 lb's of thrust by themselves.

Cheers,
FM

The heat from the radiator had a jet propulsion effect.

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[koba]

Thats really smart shit.

[TZ350]

The heat from the radiator had a jet propulsion effect.

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A bit of info I scraped from an air cooled aero engine page that mentions the jet effect.

" First off, the interior shape of the cowl is just as important, if not more so, than the exterior. So it would be a good idea to design a convergent/divergent shape into the front half of the cowl. Next, cooling air that enters the cowl should all be put to good use doing what it's supposed to do; carry away heat rejected through the cooling fins.

And once the air has picked up the rejected heat, the exit duct should, again, be given a lot of thought. This includes the shape and the exit area. It may be possible to design an augmenter system whereby the exhaust pulses are used to 'pump' cooling air through the cowl. Convair designed a twin engined commuter aircraft powered by a pair of Pratt & Whitney R-2800s in the late 1940s. The eighteen exhaust stacks were utilized to pump cooling air through the cowl.

Exhaust and cooling air were mixed and dumped overboard over the trailing edge of the wing. It was claimed that 500 pounds of thrust and 20mph resulted from this innovation."


I once heard/saw a Sea-Fury doing a flat run across the water and when it was real close it pulled up into a maximum rate climb. The sound was the most beautiful thing, the big radial engine climbing out at full power, truly awesome.
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[TZ350]

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Another page scrape, that talks about a ram air scoop.

"Another aspect that hasn't been touched upon is that of induction ram recovery. With a front induction engine, a carefully designed ram duct for the induction system could gain 1 to 2 in.Hg. at 150mph. This is a significant amount. Again, look at a high performance WWII fighter for good ram air induction systems. The opening, which should be normal to the air flow, must be sized correctly; too large and air spills out of the ram air duct and creates drag. Too little and full ram recovery is not possible. If, for arguments sake, the induction venturi is at 45 degrees, a duct that 'bends' the air from horizontal to 45 degrees is required. And it may even need a flow splitter within the duct to further assist the ram effect. For a rear induction engine a similar duct can be used and again, the duct should discharge into the venturi, preferably well sealed. Only with this system the air needs to bend through 180 degrees."

Picture below is of a Sea Furys ram air duct on the top of the cowl and the anular gap (about 1.5" to 2") engines cooling air.

1.5" annular gap on Sea Fury This is Nelson Ezell's Sea Fury powered by a Wright R-3350-26W. The annular gap is 1-1/2 inches and it cools just fine. Unfortunately, I couldn't get a picture of the after body but many of the 3350 powered Sea Furys' use a 1-1/2' or 2' gap. Of course, a lot of heat is rejected through the oil coolers which have spray bar assist.

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