ESE's works engine tuner

[Muhr]

just wanted to add that blue is low pressure and red high

Here you have a more familiar port arrangement. Is a great difference in flow

The stud pads are up high so that big pockets are not needed low down in the casing to enable a ring spanner onto the hex nuts.
These pockets would likely restrict the transfer duct wall positions.

Here is the interim dyno result of my cylinder testing.
The 3 port Exhaust duct exit area is reduced to my recommended 75% and the Aux duct ears are enlarged right down to the end of the spigot.
No other changes to the tune at all.
Next step is a 1.5mm radius on the IAME piston shape , and to find the correct cylinder height to use with that radius , maybe get 50 Hp for the first time.

Nice result !.. have you added material to the cylinder?

[wobbly]

As I think I said, the piston I used for the radius testing was 0.5mm higher,so with a 1mm radius on the piston edge the taller piston
had the same effect as dropping the cylinder 1/2 the radius.
This gave an increase in front side power, but killed the overev power.
Then I recut the radius to 1.5mm, this killed the midrange and gave the same power in the overev as before.
Maybe I need to try a smaller 0.75 rad - but to lower the cylinder enough I would have to then cut the base gasket face if i used stock pistons.

Re the duct geometry change in the TM cylinder.
Yes, material was added to the floor and the roof, starting at nothing where the Aux tunnels enter the main duct side, and at the other end the oval exit height was reduced by 4mm.
With the ears added on the side of the exit, this gave 76% area total.

[TZ350]

I haven't read or seen about anyone using anything else than a cable driven system.
Is it because these cable servos are really cheap or because a servo boltet to the engine gets ratteld apart?

And a question I came over with Ignitech is what happens with a engine without battery? Does the servo pulls out the power from the system while kicking or is the start up check time delayed?

We use a cable driven system because it is pretty easy/cheap to get good second hand servos, RGV, NSR, RZ etc.

We also have a push and go PV servo bike with an Ignitec DC ignition and no battery. It starts Ok, no obvious servo delay, the servo just seems to do its sweep thing once the generator starts turning over and making some power.

We modify a 150cc Lifan magneto to fit. Strip off the high voltage magneto winding's and use the 12Volt lighting winding's with a 12V voltage rectifier/regulator and a 25V/2500 uF capacitor for the DC power supply. All easy stuff to find on the net.

How to make a decent light weight racing 12 Volt generator stator for the Suzuki GP/TF/TS RG50 from a Lifan after market magneto kit. We have spun these to 14,000 rpm plus on the dyno and they have proved reliable on the track.

Go to the original post to see all the "how to" details and pictures.

[peewee]

hey guys this is video from today with 30% vol. nitro mix. the tuning isn't perfect but I think its not too far off. a couple times the idle would slightly hang so I think 1/2 turn or so richen on the needle will fix that. the crankcase sounds like theres alot of excess fuel building up but once theres a load onto the engine it seems to run clean at full throttle so I think the jets are close to where they need to be. two jets are full open and the third is 1.5 turn open. ive been checking the fuel and ambient temp each riding session then recording it in a book for future reference. probly this week im planning to also buy a hydrometer and test a batch of fuel mix then see how it compares to mixing it by volume, ill report back once I have a answer to this.

[TZ350]

.
Sounding Good!

[karter444]

The stud pads are up high so that big pockets are not needed low down in the casing to enable a ring spanner onto the hex nuts.
These pockets would likely restrict the transfer duct wall positions.

Here is the interim dyno result of my cylinder testing.
The 3 port Exhaust duct exit area is reduced to my recommended 75% and the Aux duct ears are enlarged right down to the end of the spigot.
No other changes to the tune at all.
Next step is a 1.5mm radius on the IAME piston shape , and to find the correct cylinder height to use with that radius , maybe get 50 Hp for the first time.

Hi Wobbly
during this test are the aux exhaust ports still standard or have they been ground.
Did you change the entry angle into the aux ports and did you grind any alloy from the port entry area where it turns into the aux duct passages .
re the exhaust u bend . thanks for the info way better with the short u bend and better again with an insert added
I am about to modify an existing mandrel to do the bends and hopefully can bend some 28 x 1.2 wall tube ,if they turn out ok with no tube distortion do you want a 1.2 wall bend to test
cheers Richard

[wobbly]

The Aux ports and ducts in the test cylinder were to the "factory selected " numbers but were not modified.
The ducts were changed in that they started to widen right where they intersect the
main duct , and then ended up as the big ears at the exit face.
If you change the geometry of the Aux ports at the bore, or deepen the pocket where they enter the duct, the port linking area increases and you loose almost as much power
as you gain - and the short circuiting makes it run richer.
This is due to the rear edge of the port being well past the front edge of the small end hole.
The only mod is to lift the Aux port, but again this looses mid big time, and you have to completely change the tune to get this back without loosing the overev power just gained.
Unless of course you are running Torlon small end plugs.

I have got 28 X1.2 stingers - these are made by ELTO who do the pipes.NFG as the stock TM ones are 1mm wall and this gives a greater step to the exit of the nozzle.
This works better.

[karter444]

I do cool the back of the spigot Mat, with slots thru the casting into the water.
The pic is an old version done by hand as a test - also shows the smaller exit now being used in red line.
The extended Aux ducts have a huge effect on the Blowdown Cd, Jan said he saw this extra flow pattern right up the diffuser on an Aprilia pipe when it was cut open.
Cant wait to test the bigger radius piston on the new cylinder ,the insert wont match exactly at the bore as it should ,but if the power is good then I will CAD up a new one.

Hi Wobbly
do you have a dyno result for this test barrel compared to the new barrel you have done .it would be interesting to see what and where in the curve the difference between having the duct at 75% area with the ears and having the ears with a standard duct
do both those slots go into the water jacket or are they just feed by the 2 holes at each end
cheers Richard

[wobbly]

Richard, the original duct ear tests I did were on an old KZ10 for Hamilton - that cylinder won 4 titles and with all the mods made very close power to the
Franco factory selected C cylinder shown in the dyno sheet.

With all the mods done to Kinsmans C model , it is about 1/2 way between the Franco ,and the new version just tested, but his engine result has the factory special
#5 pipe on it.
That generates a shit ton of overev, so I have retuned it to push up the front side power, as the track data shows that this is around 3/10th faster than using the extra grunt past 14,500.

But the new cylinder makes way better power everywhere than the best I can do, modifying everything in site.

Before I sent it back , I put the #5 on the new cylinder ,but that setup would be far more suitable to the very fast Euro layouts like Sarno, not goat tracks like TePuke.
DeConto and Franco are away testing exactly that right now.

The water cooling slots go right thru the flange face into water,the full length, as this cools all of the duct as well as the back of the spigot.

[TZ350]

All three injection ports.

Posted because someone asked what the "B" port injectors looked like.

And how much of a gap there was between the fly wheel halves.

original Suzuki GP100 crank.

The fly wheels are 12mm further apart than standard and have been heavily skimmed on the inside faces. With the wider, slimmer flywheels and the 20mm longer Yamaha RD400 connecting rod the crankcase volume has been increased significantly.

The increased crankcase volume is there to provide as much air/fuel mixture as possible for the pipe to suck up into the cylinder in the hope of improved transfer efficiency. The pipe is designed to deliver it's suction pulse around BDC.

I am not sure what it is, but the crankcase compression ratio must be quite low compared to the traditional 1.5:1 to 1.3:1. Maybe it is as low as 1.2:1 so it relies very heavily on the pipe to draw mixture through. And with the big case volume there is plenty of mixture available. Low CC ratios seem to work better with rotary valve and piston port engines than they do with reed valve ones.



The flywheels can be 12mm further apart because I fitted a 12mm spacer plate between the case halves so I could replace the 5 speed gearbox with a 6 speed one.

[TZ350]

Attachment 337236

The Arduino uses a MAP sensor to measure crankcase pressure and looks for the maximum and minimum pressure and outputs the difference as a simulated MAP value to the EFI's CPU.

Too many ups and downs in the graphic. There are RPM's that are up, and RPM's that are down, close to each other, looks like a bandwith measurement problem. Try to get a datasheet of the MAP sensor, look at the response time and find out if you can take like 8-10 samples per revolution. Choose the 8-bit resolution ADC conversion off the Arduino to speed the software part up. Get rid of noise: sample deeper.

If I look at it filtered, I see the data increasing with rpm ,without significant spike.

Bandwith is just like: I want to look into this at let's say 12000 rpm, thats 200/sec, so you sample sort of valid at 2000/sec.

Thanks for the heads up.

Map sensor tech sheet says <2ms. other data sheets I have seen say 1ms so I expect it is somewhere between 1-2ms for the sensor to settle to 90% value of the change in the difference of pressure.

So not fast enough. It could easily miss the high and low point of a cycle. Certainly can't reliably make 8-10 measurements per cycle. If I can't time the measurements to be taken at predetermined points in the cycle I will have to think of something else.



When I attach a large volume (50cc) to the crankcase with a small diameter hose and measure the MAP value I get a clean average reading.

I am thinking of using the average MAP reading and adding the difference between the high and low pressure each cycle as measured by a fast Piezo sensor.

That way I could maybe make 20-30 measurements per cycle even at 12,000 rpm. The Piezo would only see the relative difference between high and low but with some math it could be dialed in to show a suitable maximum amplitude.

Adding them together, average map and the piezo measured difference between the high and low pressure each cycle could give a clean pressure curve that represents mass air flow through the motor.

I am not sure how fast the Arduino Nano is, but hopefully fast enough to manage 10-20 or so readings per cycle at 12,000 rpm.

[peewee]

hey guys I have info for anyone interested. my hydrometer showed up today and I did a few tests. I still plan to mix my nitro by volume but I wanted to see how volume compared to weight and if the online charts were bullshit or not. turns out theyre not bullshit. the online chart I have says a 30% volume is about 38% by weight and that's almost dead on what I got with the hydrometer. so moral of the story, if you mix by vol, the percent by weight will by a fair bit higher. something to keep in mind

the other thing I read was, theres a chemical reaction when nitro and methanol are mixed. its true indeed. once the fuels are mixed theres a immediate temp reduction. my 30% vol mix dropped about 8.5F immediately and it was about an hour before it returned to 72F ambient temp. so to start with, the nitro was 72F, the methanol was 73.6F, once mixed it dropped to 64.5F (-8.5F). supposedly 50% mix drops the most, at nearly 15F.

unfortunatly I don't have a methanol hydrometer so I couldn't do a pretest purity test on it but I did pretest the nitro at 72F, it was 95%. my hydrometer is calibrated at 60F so that would put the nitro somewhere around 100% at 60F

after a hour or so when the fuel mix returned to ambient 72F, I put it outside at night to cool it down as close to 60F as possible, since that's where my hydrometer is calibrated. I couldn't get it much lower than about 64F so I took the reading at that temp. was 36%. which like I said before, it corresponds with online charts that say 30% vol is about 38% by weight, at the calibrated temp of the specific hydrometer. had I been able to get the fuel mix another 4F colder it would of registered about 38% on the hydrometer.

im real happy with how this old shitbox ktm has been holding up so far but I think 30%vol is as far as im going for now, atleast until I upgrade the fuel system. im afraid It may not be able to supply the float bowl sufficiently if I go any higher and I don't want to see what disaster might happen

heres some photos
1- methanol pretest temp check
2- nitro pretest temp check
3- pretest of the 72F nitro. ( 95% )
4- temp check of the mixed fuel immediately after mixing. 64F
5- test of the fuel mix at 64F (36%). it returned to ambient 72F then it was cooled back down outside to 64F for the test

[husaberg]

im real happy with how this old shitbox ktm has been holding up so far but I think 30%vol is as far as im going for now, atleast until I upgrade the fuel system. im afraid It may not be able to supply the float bowl sufficiently if I go any higher and I don't want to see what disaster might happen

I was thinking about your bike the other day why not plumb in a remote float bowl as well something like a SU one would work they are pretty cheap. there are plenty of different types.



over in the states there has likely been other car carbs that had remote floats as well. or just simple extensions

its not as silly as it sounds as Mazdas used to run extended and remote flotas on tuned 13BS with IDA webbers.

[SwePatrick]

Or just run electronic powerjets feeded directly from fueltank.

[peewee]

whats a remote floatbowl ?