ESE's works engine tuner

[Flettner]

Flettner, Do you know “Why” they were denied? If so, did your previous design, installed & working have an effect?

Beeing that KTM copied theTPI YZ, I think so.

[TZ350]

KTM patenting TPI. It seems their application has been turned down by the patent office.

Shit Hot ..........

Now to make sure they can't steel the PesudoMAP concept and patent it, of seeing changes in airflow through a 2S motor by measuring the difference between high and low pressures in the crankcase.

I think Flettners idea of measuring the crankcase pressure was first published for the World Wide Web here on KiwiBiker.

Well actually it was Flettners original idea to measure the crankcase pressure at a set point. He suggested a sample and hold approach and tried it with a small rotating valve timed to the peak crankcase pressure. It showed promise on his 360. I am just trying to refine it a bit by using a small PLC.

[TZ350]

Fuel Injected 500cc V4 two stroke Ronax Road Racer. http://www.ronax500.com/en/

For sensing mass air flow I think they are using a MAF sensor on the entry to a large airbox. Would love to know more if anyone has info.

[TZ350]

Another fuel injected 500cc V4 twostroke. The Suter at the Isle of Man TT

[Niels Abildgaard]

Shit Hot ..........

Now to make sure they can't steel the concept and patent it, of seeing changes in airflow through a 2S motor by measuring the difference between high and low pressures in the crankcase.

I think Flettners idea of measuring the crankcase pressure was first published for the World Wide Web here on KiwiBiker.

A better way is to measure airflow/velocity throuh a scavenge channel during the first half of the scavenge period,start fuel injection and calculate when to stop.
Measuring airflow 2kHz variation is piece of cake with hot wire anemometry.

[husaberg]

A better way is to measure airflow/velocity throuh a scavenge channel during the first half of the scavenge period,start fuel injection and calculate when to stop.
Measuring airflow 2kHz variation is piece of cake with hot wire anemometry.

it could also measure the same air flow more than once.

[TZ350]

A better way is to measure airflow/velocity through a scavenge channel during the first half of the scavenge period,start fuel injection and calculate when to stop. Measuring airflow 2kHz variation is piece of cake with hot wire anemometry.

I would sure like to know more.

But there are some issues. As well as the air reversal issue Husaburg mentions. There is also the fire that comes back down the transfer ducts when the engine is over revved and at times the injection cycle is 80 - 90% of the crank cycle. The primary injectors duty cycle goes out to 80 - 90% before swapping to the secondrys which also may go out to 80 - 90% at peak load. In the "B" port the injector would squirt raw fuel over the hot wire but the idea could be made to work in the "A" ports. As an aside, the longer the injectors are on the better the motor seems to run. The motor seems to run best when the injectors are on for long enough to cover the whole of the transfer port open time.



Hot wire. It is something worth thinking about, there may be a way to use it. I will look into it, thanks.

[Kiwiagbike]

Well that's most helpful and makes sense regarding jetting in respect to the CHT & EGT relationship.

[Norman]

Shit Hot ..........

Now to make sure they can't steel the concept and patent it, of seeing changes in airflow through a 2S motor by measuring the difference between high and low pressures in the crankcase.

I think Flettners idea of measuring the crankcase pressure was first published for the World Wide Web here on KiwiBiker.

Look at the abstracts on the attached patents. You can find the docs by google the number. Patent text can include a lot of info and text, however, first claim is what counts the most and very important (1.) and then the rest of the claims. A patent engineer can help to possibly come around it if your design is close and the intent is to go market. It could perhaps cost a couple of $300-500 to get a first opinion. One of them is an application for US patent but i believe it already has a granted French patent.

[TZ350]

A patent engineer can help to possibly come around it if your design is close and the intent is to go market.

No, my intent is not to bring something to market but to publish as much detail as I can about a practicable working arrangement so that it is public knowledge and that way prevent someone else from locking up knowledge and slowing the development of a new era of two stroke development. I wanted to make anything useful I might find available to anybody who could use it.

Look at the abstracts on the attached patents. You can find the docs by google the number. Patent text can include a lot of info and text, however, first claim is what counts the most and very important (1.) and then the rest of the claims.

Thank you for the Patent's. It tells me a lot about where things are at currently.

Some of the ideas are close to mine. Reading what they claim and based on my experience I doubt any of them have a working example. They leave out key important facts that are necessary to know for success. You would un-avoidably run into these issues if you try what they claim so I think they are just guessing.

The race is on to get the information out there as general knowledge before someone can lock it up.

[Norman]

No, my intent is not to bring something to market but to publish as much detail as I can about a practicable working arrangement so that it is public knowledge and that way prevent someone else from locking up knowledge and slowing the development of a new era of two stroke development. I wanted to make anything useful I might find available to anybody who could use it.



Thank you for the Patent's. It tells me a lot about where things are at currently.

Some of the ideas are close to mine. Reading what they claim and based on my experience I doubt any of them have a working example. They leave out key important facts that are necessary to know for success. You would un-avoidably run into these issues if you try what they claim so I think they are just guessing.

The race is on to get the information out there as general knowledge before someone can lock it up.

I am glad to hear that these are likely not to any problem for your hard efforts. I was just a bit worried for a moment.

[TZ350]

.
They are good to see, it means people are still thinking about two strokes.

[TZ350]

Flettners YZ250 "B" port injection cylinder.

Actual video clip of the YZ being ridden, May 2013 ..... https://youtu.be/hOGZ5llowoU .... check out video's by GerbilGronk on YouTube.

KTM first reveled their EFI bike in May 2017.

The first person I know of to post anything about "B" transfer port injection was Flettner.

When KTM saw it they told him they were going to do something more sophisticated but after messing about for a long while and wasting a lot of time they eventually adopted Flettners idea then the cheeky buggers tried to patent it as their own.



https://transmoto.com.au/ktm-two-str...e-development/

https://dirtbiketest.com/fresh-dirt/...7FCRK6YAG4u.97

KTM patenting TPI. It seems their application has been turned down by the patent office.

[husaberg]

Flettners YZ250 "B" port injection cylinder.

The first person I know of to post anything about "B" transfer port injection was Flettner.

When KTM saw it they told him they were going to do something more sophisticated but after messing about for a long while and wasting a lot of time they eventually adopted Flettners idea then the cheeky buggers tried to patent it as their own original idea.



https://transmoto.com.au/ktm-two-str...e-development/

There is a better article than that it was Synject that did most of the work for KTM they were part owned by Orbitial.

Synject has been sold to a large US tech firm that does anti lock brakes etc.
https://dirtbiketest.com/fresh-dirt/...s-path-to-tpi/

[ken seeber]