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Thread: ESE's works engine tuner

  1. #32641
    Join Date
    3rd January 2013 - 11:18
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    Yamaha RD250,350,400's
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    US
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    Quote Originally Posted by sispeed View Post
    If this type of piston is used in a RD 400 there is no wonder that one lost its tongue. They are YPVS Water-cooled Style and there is a bridged Inlet. RD 400 doesn't have a bridge, so chances are good the tongue will snap at the lower edge of the inlet.
    If I use such pistons in Air-cooled Motors, without a bridge I remove the tongue before installing and using the pistons
    Regards Siggi
    RZ350/Banshee pistons in RD400s
    My experience has been 99% RD250/350/400/Early TZ/RZ so I have rebuilt and modified just a mountain of these engines so of i've seen many many RZ350/Banshee pistons come out of 400’s (and of course installed a mountain of them). These pistons were a absolutely without a doubt a wonderful windfall for the RD400 but you all are right the center tongue which was designed for a bridged intake catches on the RD400’s single intake. Stock and of course even worse with a modified intake. Being aircooled cylinders using more clearance than the watercoolers doesn’t help the issue either. I’ve been called more than once to help someone determine what the noise is after they had some four stroke shop bore their cylinders and give them a set of pistons.. Pull a reedcage and there’s the tang (or tongue).. Of course the other problem is most non 2stroke experienced shops or even those with just modern 2 stroke experience only put what I call micro chamfers on their ports and that doesn’t help… (aircooled cylinders need more chamfer!!) Bottom line from experience and observing piston wear patterns that are always ½ way up to all the way up the “usual” 4-5mm tang when run for any length of time in a 400 if they aren't broken off.. Is cut the tang off and put a chamfer on the cutout it forms, DEFINITELY leave the side “tangs”, and always use a really nice radius and a generous chamfer on the bottom of 400 intakes. Ed

  2. #32642
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    16th April 2018 - 08:17
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    RC51
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    Dear multi-cylinder experts,
    When doing cylinder development on a multi-cylinder engine, is it common to make a single cylinder development engine? For example, could a guy cut a parallel twin in half? Obviously on a water cooled, it would take some plumbing work. The crankshaft would need some major mods. Just curious if anyone goes through the hassle. Thanks!

  3. #32643
    Join Date
    17th September 2013 - 01:07
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    Monark -57(50cc moped), KTM 200EXC
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    SWE
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyincat View Post
    Dear multi-cylinder experts,
    When doing cylinder development on a multi-cylinder engine, is it common to make a single cylinder development engine? For example, could a guy cut a parallel twin in half? Obviously on a water cooled, it would take some plumbing work. The crankshaft would need some major mods. Just curious if anyone goes through the hassle. Thanks!
    Expert, in any way, I’m not. But...

    I would say this is, or at least was, the norm.
    In the old days of 125/250/500 it’s all quiet natural to do the development on a 125 “dummy case” or engine.
    Jan Thiel, jamathi, have told how all the Aprillia cylinders was developed on a single RSW case, even if the RSA was rather different, since they also had to fit the 250. Hope I got that right.
    In the 60-70:s BMW i.e. developed new 16v heads for F2 on a single that was a cut off from the inline 4 it was destined for. Google Apfelbeck, who was the brains behind it as well as the patent holder, and prepare for a real “valve chock”. Successful though.

  4. #32644
    Join Date
    2nd April 2012 - 00:54
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    Aprilia GP 125 & 250, 91 & 92 models
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    Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyincat View Post
    Dear multi-cylinder experts,
    When doing cylinder development on a multi-cylinder engine, is it common to make a single cylinder development engine? For example, could a guy cut a parallel twin in half? Obviously on a water cooled, it would take some plumbing work. The crankshaft would need some major mods. Just curious if anyone goes through the hassle. Thanks!
    Don’t cut it in half, just remove the items that are not required if you were to run the engine with one working cylinder only.
    Depending upon the engine type & configuration you may need to rebalance the crank for a single cylinder use.

  5. #32645
    Join Date
    21st March 2014 - 22:00
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    RZ350, TZR250 3XV
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    Hanau, Germany
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyincat View Post
    Dear multi-cylinder experts,
    When doing cylinder development on a multi-cylinder engine, is it common to make a single cylinder development engine? For example, could a guy cut a parallel twin in half? Obviously on a water cooled, it would take some plumbing work. The crankshaft would need some major mods. Just curious if anyone goes through the hassle. Thanks!
    I have a TZR250 3XV (the V type) and have modified a TZR125 4FL to fit all the 3XV (or 4DP TZ type) parts as best as I can. Of course the crank housing and the crank itself is a bit different, but that's the compromise for me...
    Welcome Ed, world is small...

  6. #32646
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    7th October 2015 - 07:49
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    honda ns 400
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    Lithuania
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyincat View Post
    Dear multi-cylinder experts,
    When doing cylinder development on a multi-cylinder engine, is it common to make a single cylinder development engine? For example, could a guy cut a parallel twin in half? Obviously on a water cooled, it would take some plumbing work. The crankshaft would need some major mods. Just curious if anyone goes through the hassle. Thanks!
    This is indeed very helpful for development and mistakes friendly configuration. Still testing things on both Honda NS 250/2 and Suzuki RGV 250/2 with modified cranks for single cylinder. Both V 90 engines, but on NS 250 horizontal cylinder near primary drive and RGV 250 vertical cylinder at ignition side ( add photo). Mainly it depends on which shaft is easier to make.
    On parallel twin end result would be more accurate, but with V engines is some mismatch (different cylinder position, crankcase volume, ex pipes).
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  7. #32647
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    16th April 2018 - 08:17
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    RC51
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    USA
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    Thank you, all, for the helpful tips and pictures!

    katinas - What is with the large aluminum sleeve in the blank cylinder in the last picture?

    For a parallel twin, are there any balance related tripping hazards with replacing rod/counterbalance with a plain shaft? I know squat about balance but it seems balance in a parallel twin would be independent of the neighbor cylinder. Correct?

  8. #32648
    Join Date
    2nd January 2015 - 06:12
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    RG500
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    Norway
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    14
    Quote Originally Posted by rtechracing View Post
    I posted my issues on this site hopeing to get some good feedback. Instead it ends up with a big argue regarding what Luc has claimed or said in the past. Why bother, instead lets spend our time and energy on a good discussion sharing information and knowledge about the fantastic art of 2-stroke.
    Let`s agree on that we don`t have to share the same filosophy, some thinks one thing is the right way to go and someone else thinks another route is better.....if someone claims he can make 100HP from a 50cc engine so what! let him think that.
    Can some of you guys that keeps asking questions about what Luc have said or claimed give me a good theory why the power drops before entering powerband like the dynograph shows?

    Thanks a lot guys!!
    I just wanted to update you guys on the issue I experienced with the H2 engine previously discussed. Luc had the oportunity to help me and after performing changes according to Luc`s calculations the engine have never been more powerful. We have made a new PB in top speed and ET and is currently second fastest bike in europe with this type of bike. There is still more to come from this engine and it has been a privilege to work with Luc so far and I look forward to future colaboration as well

  9. #32649
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    18th May 2007 - 20:23
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    RG50 and 76 Suzuki GP125 Buckets
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    Quote Originally Posted by rtechracing View Post
    ...lets spend our time and energy on a good discussion sharing information and knowledge about the fantastic art of 2-stroke. Can some of you guys give me a good theory why the power drops before entering powerband like the dynograph shows? Thanks a lot guys!!
    I would love to know more about that common torque dip and learn more about your technique to improve it.

    Quote Originally Posted by rtechracing View Post
    We have made a new PB in top speed and ET and is currently second fastest bike in Europe with this type of bike. There is still more to come from this engine and it has been a privilege to work with Luc so far and I look forward to future collaboration as well
    Your success is great news. Can you share some more about the recent development of your bike.


  10. #32650
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    2nd January 2015 - 06:12
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    Quote Originally Posted by TZ350 View Post
    I would love to know more about that common torque dip and learn some techniques that could improve it.
    The torque dip is still there but flatter and way higher then before as it enters powerband and the overall graph is stronger than our all time high dyno reading.


    Your success is great news. Can you share some more about the recent development of your bike.
    Sorry, I am not allowed by the owner of the bike to share anything, I hope you respect that.

  11. #32651
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    2nd January 2015 - 06:12
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    Quote Originally Posted by TZ350 View Post
    I would love to know more about that common torque dip and learn more about your technique to improve it.



    Your success is great news. Can you share some more about the recent development of your bike.
    The torque dip is still there but much flatter and way stronger as it enters powerband. The overall graph is stronger all the way and peaks higher than our all time high dyno reading.

  12. #32652
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    18th May 2007 - 20:23
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    Quote Originally Posted by rtechracing View Post
    Sorry, I am not allowed by the owner of the bike to share anything, I hope you respect that.
    I can understand it but don't respect it, taking from the table without contributing in return, would you respect that?


  13. #32653
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    8th February 2007 - 20:42
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    Ha ha , we bitched about Luc because ( among other things ) we never got one useful piece of actual hard info .
    Now you come on here singing his praises - and funny that , no info about the project.
    So the point of telling us about this is ?
    But you want us to help you - which we can as a group tell you all about the power band dip , its common knowledge.
    Get real.
    Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.

  14. #32654
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    27th October 2013 - 08:53
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    Quote Originally Posted by TZ350 View Post
    I can understand it but don't respect it, taking from the table without contributing in return, would you respect that?
    what do you expect when site rules allow any rube to wander through and copy photos and take info

  15. #32655
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    1st May 2016 - 13:54
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    Quote Originally Posted by peewee View Post
    what do you expect when site rules allow any rube to wander through and copy photos and take info
    Hey!! Fair go! I resemble that remark!
    .
    .
    Click image for larger version. 

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