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Thread: ESE's works engine tuner

  1. #33121
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    4th September 2017 - 10:39
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    Quote Originally Posted by wobbly View Post
    And adding to the effect of having very high exhaust duration you can cut the skirts short such that the port is open a few mm when the piston is at TDC.
    Wreaks havoc with the jetting , but in the project i tried that we were using big pumper carbs.
    Very easy to adjust the fuel curve as was needed - but I doubt a normal carb could be made to work.
    This setup on a " stock " 950 SeaDoo gave an added 8 Hp in about 80 , so 10% - enough for the title at Havasu.
    On a 1180 twin race motor the bump was 15 Hp in 120 so a little less.
    That fact intrigues me, filling (supercharging) supplement volume charge for the exhaust why it happens.
    How to get that little supplement volume of cargo to the exhaust:
    The depression of the main exhaust creates a venturi effect and attracts it
    the inertia of the incoming mixture forces it out through this small slot.
    Which of the two causes can it be?

  2. #33122
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceci View Post
    That fact intrigues me, filling (supercharging) supplement volume charge for the exhaust why it happens.
    How to get that little supplement volume of cargo to the exhaust:
    The depression of the main exhaust creates a venturi effect and attracts it
    the inertia of the incoming mixture forces it out through this small slot.
    Which of the two causes can it be?
    I believe it's the split suction wave from the single diffuser that find it's way into the tdc side crank case. Or it's explained on previous pages.

  3. #33123
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    wobbly, your project excites me, it resembles the project that I would like to carry out. The two projects are based on supercharging the engine by providing an extra supplement through the exhaust.
    In the project I want to carry out, being a single cylinder, the supplement is provided by an auxiliary pump cylinder
    Attempts to find a suitable solution to provide that supplement
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  4. #33124
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    Another attempt, is based on the FOX cylinder of Mr. Frits Overmars
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  5. #33125
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    19th June 2011 - 00:29
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    My spreadsheet for porting, head and pipe is ready (well, for now, as such things are never "final" )


    excel : http://users.telenet.be/jannemie/Jan...oke%201.0.xlsm
    manual : http://users.telenet.be/jannemie/Jan...oke%201.0.docx

    I've opened a seperate topic where we can discuss it if people feel the need.

    https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/s...post1131145957

  6. #33126
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanBros View Post
    My spreadsheet for porting, head and pipe is ready (well, for now, as such things are never "final" )
    excel : http://users.telenet.be/jannemie/Jan...oke%201.0.xlsm
    manual : http://users.telenet.be/jannemie/Jan...oke%201.0.docx
    I've opened a seperate topic where we can discuss it if people feel the need.
    https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/s...post1131145957
    Bravo Jan ! I know that it has been a tremendous amount of work.
    I noticed that you refer to my 'Leaning Tower of Pisa' story. If you wish, you can download the complete Pisa-story from https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...rNTk89_KgwgWof , from the folder 'FOS Tips & Concepts', and bundle it with your masterpiece.
    In fact, you can use everything you find there and use it, provided credits are respected.
    You might also take a look at the disclaimer accompanying the 'FOS Exhaust Concept'; it is a bit more extensive than the older version that you quoted.

  7. #33127
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanBros View Post
    Frits, don't know if I have to congratulate you or ask you, looking at this graph :
    is from my excel, entered all the RSA data (cylinder and head, and than calculated your FOS pipe. Red is standard FOS as by your fomula's with 57.5 BHP at crank and an exhaust temp of 587° to get the same length as the tubo102....
    Jan, I was so delighted with your praise that I did not notice until now, that the above value of 587 must have been the speed of sound instead of the exhaust gas temp. I already corrected this wherever I could and if you do the same, I can delete this post and pretend it never happened

  8. #33128
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    19th June 2011 - 00:29
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    changed it Frits .

    Guess it's an old habit of all the other pipe program's out there, and the old one I used; they all use exhaust gas temp as the changeable variable.

    so checked my manual end excel and made the same mistake there

    so changed it and uploaded correct versions. Also put a direct link to the Pisa story in it if that's ok. I haven't got much upload space, and uploadeing the same again is a bit silly I think.

  9. #33129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frits Overmars View Post
    Jan, I was so delighted with your praise that I did not notice until now, that the above value of 587 must have been the speed of sound instead of the exhaust gas temp.
    Is it not always at the speed of sound? The speed just needs to be corrected for air temperature and pressure.
    ........Rules are for fools and a guide for the wise ..............

    http://www.marshland.co.nz

  10. #33130
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    ktm's new pipe

    The KTM went back on the dyno today, last time we were a little underwhelmed with 38 bhp and an awful curve.
    John splashed out on a new FMF fatty and it added about 3 1/2 but the golden touch was winding the power valve spring right out flush,😜 it went from 41 ish up to 48, the curve was much stronger too, we’ll gear it to run where it’s strong and not use the overrev.
    TZee made the magic happen as he was wondering how the Valve was adjusted, someone had wound the springs all the way in, I reverse engineered that and wound it all the way out and bingo an extra 8 BHP. ]
    Green the original pipe, blue the new pipe, red the power valve wound out with the new pipe
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  11. #33131
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanBros View Post
    Changed it Frits. Guess it's an old habit of all the other pipe program's out there, and the old one I used; they all use exhaust gas temp as the changeable variable.
    I also put a direct link to the Pisa story in it if that's ok. I haven't got much upload space, and uploadeing the same again is a bit silly I think.
    It's fine by me Jan, but the link https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1JXzzjE_Ol6LGs-yEMuy2DbpjdH-2R0f
    that I found in the updated version of your documentation, doesn't seem to work here...

    Quote Originally Posted by marsheng View Post
    Is it not always at the speed of sound? The speed just needs to be corrected for air temperature and pressure.
    Yes Marsheng, it's always the speed of sound. And if you want to work it out via the exhaust gas temperature (not the air temperature), you would have to know that temperature and you would have to know how to do the math. But why complicate a simple exhaust concept like mine?
    Just enter the speed of sound directly and you're good. KISS, remember?

  12. #33132
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    Here is the conversion between speed and temp: The front of all pressure waves travels at the local speed of sound, ao,

    ao = ^YR(Texc + 273) m/s
    R and Y be estimated to be as for air at atmospheric conditions, i.e., 287 J/kgK and 1.4,
    respectively.

    The roof is square root.
    Blair

  13. #33133
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    Quote Originally Posted by andreas View Post
    Here is the conversion between speed and temp: The front of all pressure waves travels at the local speed of sound, ao,

    ao = ^YR(Texc + 273) m/s
    R and Y be estimated to be as for air at atmospheric conditions, i.e., 287 J/kgK and 1.4,
    respectively.

    The roof is square root.
    Blair
    It can maybe be easier to remember this way:
    Ad degree celcius of exhaust to 273.
    Take the square root of this number and multiply by 20 and this is then speed of sound in meter per second.

    Example

    500 degree Celcius

    500 +273 is equal to 773 and square root of 773 is27.8.
    if 27.8 is multiplied by 20 we gett 556 meter per second

  14. #33134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frits Overmars View Post
    It's fine by me Jan, but the link https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1JXzzjE_Ol6LGs-yEMuy2DbpjdH-2R0f
    that I found in the updated version of your documentation, doesn't seem to work here...
    direct link seems to be impossible, so removed the "hyperlink" from the word document.
    pasting the link into a browser leeds the user to the FOS concepts folder and than they'll find it "somwhere in the middle" ;-)

  15. #33135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niels Abildgaard View Post
    It can maybe be easier to remember this way:
    Ad degree celcius of exhaust to 273.
    Take the square root of this number and multiply by 20 and this is then speed of sound in meter per second.

    Example

    500 degree Celcius

    500 +273 is equal to 773 and square root of 773 is27.8.
    if 27.8 is multiplied by 20 we gett 556 meter per second
    This formula and the other one given above are only approximations for low temperatures around room temp and will be grossly inaccurate at exhaust temps.

    The correct formula for Speed of Sound S at temperature T in ⁰C is:

    S = 331.3*SQRT((T+273.15)/273.15) m/s

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