Lohring, all I could see is lots of nice CNC machining and promises....Originally Posted by lohring
Hardcore Biker
Lohring, all I could see is lots of nice CNC machining and promises....
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm.”
Muddler/Dabbler.
Yes, same here .... Promising what?
Strokers Galore!
Hardcore Biker
My observations exactly. If you need to improve the simple two stroke's performance, either use a tuned pipe or a turbocharger. Both are well proven and tested solutions. Before that nearly everything you can think of has been tried. See below for a few of the better ideas.
Lohring Miller
Hardcore Biker
Which is to improve performance?, get more HP.
And if you did not get more HP but you would avoid hydrocarbon losses. Isn't that improving performance?
Muddler/Dabbler.
That is where everything starts to go in different directions! - the racing boys (which this thread is really all about) need as much performance, (ie HP and speed) as is possible, but for the two stroke to get back to universal use by the masses, then a very different type of performance is required - probably much more complicated in order to be used in all sorts of situations!
My belief is that the hybrid type of setup with an engine running within the most efficient rev range but without charging a massive battery pack (as in cars) can fulfill that role much better than trying to get an engine to perform those duties efficiently all over the rev range!
The interest in motorcycle racing is kept alive only by the fact that there are motorcycles on the roads! - racing and everyday use are two entirely different things - (admittedly there are a few dummies who can't see the difference! )
Lohring , that NACA document was worth reading!
Strokers Galore!
Hardcore Biker
Hi Monkey, don't know about any 2 stroke use, but has been done before, for four strokes, back in the 1930's, by Packard. I will post what I know in the "Oddball Engines" Thread.
( Forum - Bike mechanics - Engine - Clutch - Transmission - Oddball engines and prototypes )
Cheers, Daryl
Forum whore
.
NITRO METHANE
.
To days dyno experiments were with my Suzuki RG50 powered Bucket Racer and raw Nitro.
I have always theorized that with a correctly jetted two stroke running properly on race gas or similar one can just squirt raw Nitro Methane into the bell mouth and you will see a power increase with out any air fuel mixture issues. The reason is, that raw Nitro carries just a little more fuel than oxygen so as well as adding oxygen for more power it effectively richens the ingested mixture too.
The experiment was a bit crude. Just squirted the Nitro in. Blue line is Av Gas only and correctly jetted for max power. The red line is with Av Gas and Nitro squirt. The red line shuts of early as it goes over rich. For Nitro to be useful you would need ignition and mixture control. So the conclusion is that with a digital ignition and power jet control Nitro could be a very viable option, pity Nitro is illegal in our racing class.
But anyway if you have ever wondered if Nitro could be a good thing with two strokes then this experiment suggests there are real possibilities there.
L-Plate Rider
Good to see you never give up Rob.... Well done
L-Plate Rider
Wobbly, I have a 350RZ motor you built as aroad motor for a Napier man in my racebike. A bit down on power but pulls like a school boy.......
I have the top end open for new rings after 3 seasons and a few track days.. ..... Can i contact you regarding the internals of this motor?
cheers Martin
Fair weather rider
Gents, whats the rule of thumb/experience on piston ring gap? 0,5% of the bore?
Broke this Vertex piston ring (40 mm bore, 0,05 mm bore clearance, 0,15-0,2 mm ring gap, exhaust port chamfered) before 4h of usage...50cc Bidalot.
No8 Wire Extraordinaire
.
NITRO METHANE
.
To days dyno experiments were with my Suzuki RG50 powered Bucket Racer and raw Nitro.
I have always theorized that with a correctly jetted two stroke running properly on race gas or similar one can just squirt raw Nitro Methane into the bell mouth and you will see a power increase with out any air fuel mixture issues. The reason is, that raw Nitro carries just a little more fuel than oxygen so as well as adding oxygen for more power it effectively richens the ingested mixture too.
The experiment was a bit crude. Just squirted the Nitro in. Blue line is Av Gas only and correctly jetted for max power. The red line is with Av Gas and Nitro squirt. The red line shuts of early as it goes over rich. For Nitro to be useful you would need ignition and mixture control. So the conclusion is that with a digital ignition and power jet control Nitro could be a very viable option, pity Nitro is illegal in our racing class.
But anyway if you have ever wondered if Nitro could be a good thing with two strokes then this experiment suggests there are real possibilities there.
Illegal? Are you sure? Geez I hardly had any av gas in my av gas. Was that wrong?
Don't you look at my accountant.
He's the only one I've got.
Hardcore Biker
True this thread is more about obtaining HP.
That is why the work carried out by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars are more important.
Than those made by GORDON P. BLAIR and Timothy Carl Hickox.
The former try to trap as much fuel air mixture, the latter that the fuel does not come out without burning through the exhaust
Hardcore Biker
It has...................all top secret at the moment a fellow who has been at it a long while is making good progress
Hardcore Biker
Its about 4t, but maybe in theme. When first type of Honda NR500 engine was tried (with a very high oil consumption and all major rotating parts on rolling bearings), it noticed that the engine power increased when the oil level dropped to the point, when air entered the pump along with the oil. Later, the semi-dry crankcase principle was applied.
Muddler/Dabbler.
There is a lot of very interesting stuff coming in here, but it would be sad to see the subject of this thread change too much. - think it was started for the purpose of bringing all the bucket racing guys together with ideas about modifying existing road going machines in order to extract as much power as possible from them for racing purposes.
Covid has sure stopped things for the moment in the direction of competition!
But small road going machines (especially two strokes) are becoming more rare! and if they do make a comeback they will come back in a very different form! - scooters are thriving of course but often they are four strokes and really are quite different to the traditional bucket racer!
The type of racing machine used for Buckets is always a spin off from ordinary small road going machines (which are disappearing fast). Karting seems to be the nearest area where horsepower gaining ideas will come from these days - four strokes didn't seem to thrive there!
I'm not sure whether this thread was ever intended to be specifically for two strokes, but it sure seems to have gone that way!
So it looks like light aircraft two strokes, maybe outboards and of course snowmobiles (both usually too large) will offer some development ideas, but karts are probably the ones to look to for performance improvement ideas!
As I said, racing and road going machines are two very different things but if small road going two strokes (and four stroke) disappear from the roads, then Buckets will have to relax the rules to survive surely?
I think that development of road going two stroke machines (ie motorcycles) will either die out or they will have to improve dramatically (in order to keep the environmentalists, lawmakers etc. happy) but it'll be an uphill battle and manufacturers are there to make money, not to keep us peasants happy, but they do depend on peasants to buy their road going products at the moment!!
Strokers Galore!
There are currently 5 users browsing this thread. (1 members and 4 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks