ESE's works engine tuner

[andreas]

How is the load from the new springs applied to the hub?

[SwePatrick]

That is quite a clever solution Patrick. But didn't the required manual force become very high?
You might try this oil; it was developed by Addinol in collaboration with Langtuning (www.langtuning.de) precisely for your kind of problems, with remarkable results (and no, I do not get a percentage ).
Attachment 347099

Thanks

It actually didn´t raise the force needed in hand that very much, i though if it happened i´ll make it hydraulic also

Thanks for the link of the oil, it might be needed

It did a fast test today, no full pull in dyno as it was late in the evening, it seems promising, now the tire broke loose instead.

[SwePatrick]

How is the load from the new springs applied to the hub?

The spring are 'seated' in 'cups', the cups locks in the pressureplate, then is tightened against the new stainless disk.

[SwePatrick]

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That is very clever. I wish I had thought of it when I needed to beef up my own clutch.

Nice, thanks =)

I always work with this tale cirkulating in my head: 'If mohammed won´t go to the mountain, then the mountain has to come to mohammed'

[andreas]

The spring are 'seated' in 'cups', the cups locks in the pressureplate, then is tightened against the new stainless disk.

Ok, in my mind that does effectively nothing to raise the pressure on the plates?? Meaning it's just a compressed spring doing no work unless it is also anchored to the hub.

[SwePatrick]

You need to think again

The stainless disc is the 'wall' the springs rests at, both oem and the added, this is locked to the hub with the four countersinked screws..
Then there are cups that are oem and added cups that holds the springs.

The same function as oem, just no screws inside them, almost like zundapp´s clutch, just the other way around.

https://www.google.com/search?q=clut...w=1440&bih=754

[andreas]

I was thinking again, and you have a gap between the pressure plate and your new plate. I like it.

[katinas]

Katinas:
I was telling a friend of mine about your thinking on rounding the timing edge that we talked about some time ago, so I took his engine apart to rering it and looked what I found.
This is a YZ125 piston made by wiseco. I didn't measure it yet but it looks like 3-4 mm. It goes the whole way around the piston edge. It does not stop at the c-port area. The head does not reflect the radius of the piston. I will have to try that later on. I don't think they would have taken the time for this rounding if it didn't produce some kind of advantage, but then this is not a cheap piston either.

Hi jfn2

Such radius with unmatched head may cause detonation if the other settings (ignition, compression, squish height and width) are selected correctly.

It is not difficult task to change head shape, for rounded crown piston without sharp part at C. But some playing with ignition timing will be needed. Maybe slightly retard.

[SwePatrick]

Made a couple of pulls today, this is the best one.
White line is dyno roller, Yellow is engine rpm, they should follow eachother.

Clutch managed to transfer 37.21Nm while slipping.
Weather was really moisture today, almost 74%
I also pulled a couple of degrees ignition from it today, wanted to run safe while searching for problems with the clutch, this to also make the torque to come in smoother.

[jfn2]

Brett S:
Yes, if you look at the pics you'll see the ring pin was installed horizontally and the pin dia is slightly larger than the ring land.

Katinas:
If you look at these new pics you'll see I have no detno, in fact I think I'm a little rich, and the timing is stock. Although right off hand I don't know what that is. But I will be keeping an eye on it in the future. I would have to look but I think my squish is .85mm. And yes I know that my exhaust port bridge is not quite recessed enough. Since I can not do anything about the rounding on this piston it will have to do and I will work on the head rounding. I will leave you know what I come up with.

[ken seeber]

jfn2,
It looks to me like the anti rotation pin hole is on centre with the ring groove. This means that there is a leakage path around the back of the ring and outwards underneath the ring. Bad.

The drilling and pin should always be above the bottom of the ring groove. See pic. The small darkness under the pin is just a reflection of the pin.

[wobbly]

Yes , the ring pin from Wiseco has a leakage path on the ring land bottom seal face - dumb.
Now I must admit I never understood the need to have engine rpm on the Y scale , makes perfect sense when you compare the dead straight roller speed delta to the engine rpm to see any slip.
But there is also the possibility to plot slip % as a calculated chanel , but shit , never needed normaly as you can hear a slipping clutch immediately.

The other thing that i found with radiused piston timing edges is that the rule of thumb is to drop the cylinder by 1/2 the radius ie 1mm rad = 0.5 drop.
Then the advantage of the radius alone is seen on the dyno - a good increase all the way up the front side power , but a drop in overev.
But going the extra mile of hard work and stopping the radius each side of the boost port , and power increases everywhere.
Of course the head has to be radiused as well , or the base deto level increases dramatically. - thus lowering the available leeway when tuning to the edge.

[SwePatrick]

Now I must admit I never understood the need to have engine rpm on the Y scale , makes perfect sense when you compare the dead straight roller speed delta to the engine rpm to see any slip.
But there is also the possibility to plot slip % as a calculated chanel , but shit , never needed normaly as you can hear a slipping clutch immediately.

It´s hard to hear exactly where it starts to slip, but easy to hear when it´s out of control.

[Frits Overmars]

I must admit I never understood the need to have engine rpm on the Y scale , makes perfect sense when you compare the dead straight roller speed delta to the engine rpm to see any slip. But there is also the possibility to plot slip % as a calculated chanel , but shit , never needed normaly as you can hear a slipping clutch immediately.

It´s hard to hear exactly where it starts to slip, but easy to hear when it´s out of control.

Agreed. You can easily play it by ear if engine rpm suddenly starts rising at twice the rate. But clutches have more tricks up their sleeves, like creeping; say during 30° of each crankshaft revolution, i.e. about 10° per clutch revolution. That is not so obvious to the ear, but it would mean a 8% power loss. Which would heat the clutch, which.... etc. Power can sometimes be found by working on a clutch that didn't audibly slip.

[F5 Dave]

I have had that scenario. I'd increased the plate area but accidentally decreased the spring tension not noticing different models had different springs from my stash.

It acted as a power regulator. Wouldn't get past a certain power level.