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Thread: ESE's works engine tuner

  1. #34516
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    20th April 2011 - 08:45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muhr View Post
    Hello
    It is impressive how many dimensions a gear can have ...
    Is there anyone who can answer regarding whether RSA's bevel gear on the balance shaft only has a press fit?
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    What you need is RSA125 manuale_ingranaggi_conici_2010_rev3.PDF , but I see no options of uploading PDF files here, so I copied the relevant pages for you, Muhr.
    The conical gear is a sliding fit on the balance shaft. It is keyed into position with a 2,5 x 3,3 mm needle, # 9 in the center drawing, and the assembly is locked by the nut that also clamps the left-hand balance disc.
    By the way, did you notice that the direction of the inlet disc rotation in your drawing is opposite to that of the RSA?
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  2. #34517
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    18th April 2017 - 23:08
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frits Overmars View Post
    What you need is RSA125 manuale_ingranaggi_conici_2010_rev3.PDF , but I see no options of uploading PDF files here, so I copied the relevant pages for you, Muhr.
    The conical gear is a sliding fit on the balance shaft. It is keyed into position with a 2,5 x 3,3 mm needle, # 9 in the center drawing, and the assembly is locked by the nut that also clamps the left-hand balance disc.
    By the way, did you notice that the direction of the inlet disc rotation in your drawing is opposite to that of the RSA?
    Thanks Frits! super stuff.
    Yes it was an active choice but the consequence thought was non-existent.
    I just tried to get the weights as close to the centum as I could
    I guess it will be richer in the opening phase and liner in closing (RSA), but what it would mean in practice I do not know … Probably bad as you mention it.
    Harder to start when it opens above as well?

    (I got around 17NM with a press fit, that's when I started to anticipate trouble)
    No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong.

  3. #34518
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    20th January 2010 - 14:41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frits Overmars View Post
    What you need is RSA125 manuale_ingranaggi_conici_2010_rev3.PDF , but I see no options of uploading PDF files here, so I copied the relevant pages for you, Muhr.
    The conical gear is a sliding fit on the balance shaft. It is keyed into position with a 2,5 x 3,3 mm needle, # 9 in the center drawing, and the assembly is locked by the nut that also clamps the left-hand balance disc.
    By the way, did you notice that the direction of the inlet disc rotation in your drawing is opposite to that of the RSA?
    .....................................

    Quote Originally Posted by Frits Overmars View Post
    Here.
    Let's hear it for Mental Trousers: he created a way for me to upload BIG files.
    I will be offline for a couple of days, but this might keep you busy:

    http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/manual/Aprilia-1.zip
    http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/manual/Aprilia-2.zip
    http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/manual/Aprilia-3.zip
    http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/manual/Aprilia-4.zip
    http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/manual/Aprilia-5.zip

    One request:
    Don't spread the contents all over the world wide web.
    Then I might upload some collected data of other racing brands as well.

    Enjoy.
    https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/s...post1130210694
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  4. #34519
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    20th June 2012 - 00:17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wos View Post
    Think your sketch Shows not max possible blowdown area

    Have a second look at frits advice...in blowdown area the right and left sidewalls of the duct are vertical
    Yes ok thanks for pointing that out.
    I will change again

  5. #34520
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    18th March 2012 - 08:35
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    Made some small adjustments to the timingcurve, gained about 1hp, lost very little torque, but gained a lot of power above earlier peak.
    The same peak ignition point, but a bit less advance where max torque was before and about 1500rpm earlier also.
    This carried more heat in the pipes when running though the rpm band.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  6. #34521
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    8th December 2014 - 14:39
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    Aprilia files

    These are beautiful, Thank you Frits. And Husaberg.
    Mine downloaded perfectly.

  7. #34522
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    2nd July 2020 - 10:39
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    Top Radius

    Frits - Perhaps I'm not understanding correctly, but on the FOS port shape image it lists the center top radius should be 75% of bore. In the attached Aprilia image the top radius appears to be 95mm on a 53mm bore (179% of bore). Much larger then the 75% listed.
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  8. #34523
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    18th April 2017 - 23:08
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frits Overmars View Post
    By the way, did you notice that the direction of the inlet disc rotation in your drawing is opposite to that of the RSA?
    I made some small changes and changed direction of rotation, Now I could run in both directions.
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    No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong.

  9. #34524
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    8th February 2007 - 20:42
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    The section drawing shows an easy way to add some power - continue the case water passage around up behind the RV , and have the majority of cold water enter the cylinder each side
    of the boost port.
    Then just a pair of small 3.5mm drillings up under each side of the Ex duct to ensure flow occurs right around this and isnt into a dead end near the Ex flange.
    Having all the cold water heated first by the Ex duct is looses exactly 1 Hp in 50.
    Also the water cavity should extend right up to the back face of the Ex spigot to cool this - no gasket.
    I am about to test adding a water jacket system , as proof of concept , around the transfer ducts , right from the case split line upward.
    So the whole transfer duct is cooled , not just the last part of the bend into the port.
    Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.

  10. #34525
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    18th April 2017 - 23:08
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    Quote Originally Posted by wobbly View Post
    The section drawing shows an easy way to add some power - continue the case water passage around up behind the RV , and have the majority of cold water enter the cylinder each side
    of the boost port.
    Then just a pair of small 3.5mm drillings up under each side of the Ex duct to ensure flow occurs right around this and isnt into a dead end near the Ex flange.
    Having all the cold water heated first by the Ex duct is looses exactly 1 Hp in 50.
    Also the water cavity should extend right up to the back face of the Ex spigot to cool this - no gasket.
    I am about to test adding a water jacket system , as proof of concept , around the transfer ducts , right from the case split line upward.
    So the whole transfer duct is cooled , not just the last part of the bend into the port.
    Thanks for the suggestions Wobb
    extend the water right up to the back face of the Ex spigot should be possible without any major problems
    I have done what I understood RSA had in the end in terms of cooling?
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    No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong.

  11. #34526
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    8th February 2007 - 20:42
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    Several homologations ago now the TM Kart engines had all the water enter the cylinder under the Exhaust duct - like the Aprilia and most every other engine at the time.
    This was simple and seemed effective , but a test was done by blanking the water feed holes out of the case , and a hose was fitted around the outside to have all the cold water flow across the top
    of the Exhaust duct ( where its the hottest ). This made more power than the original method.

    I then tried a test where I extended the side hose around to the front of the cylinder and bored/threaded a hole directly above the boost port.
    This system cooled the transfer tops first , then the Exhaust duct , then up into the head.
    That made 1 Hp for about 5 minutes work - wish they were all that easy.

    The real way to do this properly would be to have the cold water entry at the bottom of the case , with a cavity up between the gearbox wall to the small bleed holes under the Exhaust duct.
    But the main flow should also then travel forward , over the main bearings , cooling the transfer duct entry area in the case from behind , then go around to enter the cylinder each side of the boost port.
    Not easy with the big reed cavity in a TM , but real easy with only the RV inlet duct under the boost port.

    Jan found power by having a water duct cooling the area between the bore and the inner transfer walls .
    So I believe the same thing would occur by cooling properly all the outside of the transfer ducts , not just the small area where they curve inward toward the port - the way every cylinder is made now.
    That test is about to happen , as Ken from WA has made me some 3D printed water covers to try cooling the sides of the cylinder with water.
    Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.

  12. #34527
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    22nd November 2013 - 16:32
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    Here's the kit. 2 * 3D printed sidecovers connected to some irrigation fittings (Bunnings is your friend for those below the equator). These, as a system, essentially take the place of the current external hose (from crankcase outlet to inlet at top of cylinder) that Wobbly was referring to.

    I just can't wait. I just suppose that Wobbly's dyno is waterproof...

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    "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm.”

  13. #34528
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    2nd November 2020 - 15:01
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    Related question on cooling

    [QUOTE=ken seeber;1131175336]Here's the kit. 2 * 3D printed sidecovers connected to some irrigation fittings (Bunnings is your friend for those below the equator). These, as a system, essentially take the place of the current external hose (from crankcase outlet to inlet at top of cylinder) that Wobbly was referring to.

    I just can't wait. I just suppose that Wobbly's dyno is waterproof...

    From WobblyÂ’s post I understand the performance merit in cooling the cylinder in the way youÂ’ve prototyped, though I was wondering if doing so, or the method Wobbly described modifying an older TM-KZ have any appreciable effect on bore distortion?

    The reason IÂ’m inquiring about durability based drawbacks to changing the where the bulk of the coolest water is sent to the cylinder is; I race a shifter kart in the US and during colder weather events most competitors have either 3-D printed cylinder cover or fabric based blankets that reduce air based cooling to ONLY the front of the cylinder. There justification is it reduces non-uniform cooling.....hopefully helping to prevent seizure. Hearing this stopped me in the past from entertaining similar cooling modifications to what Wobbly tested on the TM-KZ.

    Simply-put; will the modifications described by Wobbly and/or the prototyped cooling arrangement you fabricated necessitate additional bore clearance to account for distortion, or additional relief of port bridges (EX: more relief than normal in a T-exhaust-port type engine)?

    BTW; awesome work!!!

  14. #34529
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    4th December 2011 - 22:52
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    Quote Originally Posted by wobbly View Post
    Jan found power by having a water duct cooling the area between the bore and the inner transfer walls .
    So I believe the same thing would occur by cooling properly all the outside of the transfer ducts , not just the small area where they curve inward toward the port - the way every cylinder is made now.
    That test is about to happen , as Ken from WA has made me some 3D printed water covers to try cooling the sides of the cylinder with water.
    I have been waiting for someone to test this for many years now, since I added transfer passage temperature as an independent variable in my software and always predicted more power with less temperature. With Jan adding the cooling passage between the transfer duct and the bore and getting more power this confirmed the prediction in a small way but now... I am super exited!

  15. #34530
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    18th March 2012 - 08:35
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    Is that really a good idea?

    Water is about 50c degree hot or more.
    Surrounding air is about 20-30c hot when aiming air at them.

    Make some flat surfaces instead and mount copperfins, aim air at them with some ducts and hoses from high pressure area in front of vehicle.
    The inner radius is ofcourse better to run water inside because it´s hard to point surrounding air into them, but with some engineering it would be possible to lead air into some channels, but with quite low effiancy.

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