ESE's works engine tuner

[TZ350]

I need some help with finding a High-Load & High-Rigidity 16x22x12 radial needle roller bearing cage assembly for the RG50.

As I am looking to push piston speed and rpm up I am not expecting my standard crank to last very long.

Most bearings are the old "W" cage design. I am looking for something better.

Any pointers to a proven good quality 16x22x12 big end bearing would be very welcome. Something that the Free Tec 50 developers have found to be reliable at 16,000 rpm.

[F5 Dave]

Bore it and use Yamaha parts Rob.

[oxracer]

I need some help with finding a High-Load & High-Rigidity 16x22x12 radial needle roller bearing cage assembly for the RG50.

As I am looking to push piston speed and rpm up I am not expecting my standard crank to last very long.

Most bearings are the old "W" cage design. I am looking for something better.

Any pointers to a proven good quality 16x22x12 big end bearing would be very welcome. Something that the Free Tec 50 developers have found to be reliable at 16,000 rpm.

Hi TZ

You can get flat cage big end bearings here

http://www.emot.nl/products.php?section_id=25

Or here

https://www.tibenmotorsport.com/GB/P...-22-12-silver-

[husaberg]

Samarin
I believe do two in silver one m other flat. this is the flat
http://www.samarin.net/?productos=&a...ginas=4&&id=13



Innerdiameter 16mm.
Ytterdiameter 22mm.
Bredd 11.75mm .
Rullmått 3 mm.

Beställningsnummer JA-CI-62.

Roffe the mad swede also has them
http://www.pvlsverige.se/vrm/index/index22.html

[andreas]

You want a KU style cage, with the loose rollers. There are other flat cages, but with self contained rollers, however they cant host as many of the rollers, of course silver plated. Usually the same size company competition bike eg. rm 50, is a good place to look.

[Francisco Erjavec]

[/QUOTE]FYI: the Aprilia RSA had a 42 mm carb and 155°/89,5° disc timing and it produced maximum power at 13000 rpm; that's a mean piston speed of 23,6 meters per second.
I'm not sure if your 'peak rpm' means revs of maximum power or maximum revs but in any case 14000 rpm is rather modest. Most Freetech50 engines produce maximum power at around 14.500 rpm which equals a mean piston speed of 19,2 m/s, still a lot less than the RSA value, so I think it would be best to stay well within those RSA limits.[/QUOTE]

Hi Frits,

I am confused about the RSA disc timing because you wrote at PIT-LANE forum that the RSA disc timing was 142,5°/88°. Please, could you clarify the difference with your recent post in this forum (155°/89,5°) ?

I highly appreciate all your shared information about RSA engine.
Greetings from Argentina.

[Muhr]

Has set a goal of 350 g including balancing weights for the entire rotor valve drive assembly. A first small piece

[Frits Overmars]

Hi Frits, I am confused about the RSA disc timing because you wrote at PIT-LANE forum that the RSA disc timing was 142,5°/88°. Please, could you clarify the difference with your recent post in this forum (155°/89,5°) ?

Apparently I was confused as well Francisco; I seem to have mixed up several dyno test settings.
Here is what I could find back in chronological order after all those years (the DR-tests were done at Derbi; the AP-tests were done at Aprilia):

DRD243.PC:
2004-12-17; albero VHM 4034 V4C21;biella Yamaha C21; cuccinetti Rulli Apr C120+viggiu';
pistone Vertex n*149 965 C04; testa DB15 tr. 0.65-0.65 C34; Mappatura G44;
candela R7282A-110 gap 0,60mm; accensione microtec M127V2CAN;
carb. HRC mod VHM ovale max222; benzina Agip +3,5% ELF; alimentazione Lamellare(!) Daytona

DRVE3452.PC:
2006-10-25; N°curva 3452 moto DRVE n°03/06
Albero Drd 01/05 C004 raf.sp10.1bilan; biella Drd 120mm n°13 C004;
cuscinettiRulli Apr.giocco 0.057 C004; pistone 2544 (961) C04;
testa AC 56-G std TR0.75-0.76 C36; cilindro APE341 54.011;
valvola scarico/condotto sup.C004 Inf.C004 molle C004; tubo 69/03 moto Protti ferro;
Colettore/termin/silenz: 38.7 +0m+1gr.Sil.Dlr Hrc-std; mappatura GP184+0%A0
98B-V020B-P083B; candela Denso 35 usata C036; accensione Poker; Carburatore Vhta 41
Moto n°7 new valvolina; carburazione AU248T1.5P265Max218m48-4f-P120;
benzina ELF olio ELF 909 4%; alimentazione 155°/89.5° as20°r0sc25°r10C004

DRVE4734.PC:
2006-10-30; Gilera DRD 071030, LD 120, squish .74,
tubo G10/07 Sam.n°2.BN, tail 23, collettore 36, silenziatore 25,
Denso 34, accensione Poker, carb 42, AU286T2P264Max192m53-4f-P120,
benzina Agip +4% Elf 909, disco 152.5°/90°.

APC10768.PC:
2007-01-30; N°curva 10786;
Biella: L115 giocco 30/31; Pistone: 7 2544_03 974 seg_0.8mm;
Valvola scarico/condotto: 07/07 GV.<0.10mm
testa: 39 AC 56 TR.0.75; Rapp.Comp. 15.99; Cilindro APE Y 350 12/14 54.014;
tubo 102/06 n°1; collettore/terminale/silenz: (38.75+G_39_41) 23.25/24.5;
mappatura: P43P04P36 off. 0°; candela 46 Denso 34 lotto NH
carburatore: 42_pwmgetto 120 ug6 M030099b;
carburazione: 799+259+224+min46 corona 221;
benzina Agip GP6l +4% Elf HTX 909; alimentazione 142.5°/88°; diam 126mm

APC11684.PC:
2007-07-12; APC GP LD 115, seg_0.8, squish .76, tubo 102, bocca 38.75, terminale 23.25,
Denso 34, carb 42+PWM, getto 120, ug 6, 798+259+220+min46, corona 218,
benzina Agip GP6l +4% Elf HTX 909, disco 142.5°/88° diam 126mm

[Frits Overmars]

Has set a goal of 350 g including balancing weights for the entire rotor valve drive assembly. A first small piece

Muhr, do not copy the Aprilia RSA bevel gear drive from the balance shaft to the inlet disc; setting up those gears is a real nightmare.
There is a much better solution (that I did not discover until it was too late for the RSA): Kronenräder. The technique is well proven; Audi uses it for the transfer gears of their 4 wheel drive cars
https://www.google.com/search?client...der+hersteller

[Muhr]

Muhr, do not copy the Aprilia RSA bevel gear drive from the balance shaft to the inlet disc; setting up those gears is a real nightmare.
There is a much better solution (that I did not discover until it was too late for the RSA): Kronenräder. The technique is well proven; Audi uses it for the transfer gears of their 4 wheel drive cars
https://www.google.com/search?client...der+hersteller

Thanks Frits

You tipped about this before, I have looked for dealers and also emailed the supplier you tipped about but they were interested in how many 1000 I was going to order ... I will go past a supplier who works with bearings and gears in Sweden next week and see if they can solve it.
I already have angle gears and would be more than happy to change if I find a supplier.

[Frank S.]

Thanks Frits

You tipped about this before, I have looked for dealers and also emailed the supplier you tipped about but they were interested in how many 1000 I was going to order ... I will go past a supplier who works with bearings and gears in Sweden next week and see if they can solve it.
I already have angle gears and would be more than happy to change if I find a supplier.

Hi Muhr,
maybe you have a look at maedler.de
It is a german gear manufacturer where you can buy standard gears.
But they also make gears from your specs, even if it is only one piece.

[husaberg]

I know there were issues with the RSA and Frits posted gears are re ultimate answer, but instead of one off's and reinventing the wheel...
with the backlash couldn't you just use a spring much like hondas gears on the CBR VFR series only with miter gears.

Pretty sure the Manx norton gear drive was a splined floating shaft in the end.



https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/marketpl...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

https://www.norelem.com/us/en/Produc...-20%C2%B0.html


https://sdp-si.com/PDFS/Bevel-Gears-...sfp=2586558486

[Francisco Erjavec]

Apparently I was confused as well Francisco; I seem to have mixed up several dyno test settings.

Frits,
Thank you very much for the clarification and the shared information.

[Flettner]

First actual dyno run up, light load. Just testing all is working and the computer is working. This is the 360 TPI with the rotary disc timing / throttle gibs setup.
https://youtube.com/shorts/uz2Q6o0YtaY?feature=share

[jonny quest]

Muhr, do not copy the Aprilia RSA bevel gear drive from the balance shaft to the inlet disc; setting up those gears is a real nightmare.
There is a much better solution (that I did not discover until it was too late for the RSA): Kronenräder. The technique is well proven; Audi uses it for the transfer gears of their 4 wheel drive cars
https://www.google.com/search?client...der+hersteller

You will have backlash with this set up. It will also be very difficult to machine the shaft bores accurate for correct mesh. Unless... you can figured out eccentric bearings for the shafts for adjustment.

Bothe gear styles have drawbacks. As the famous phrase here... "no free lunch"