ESE's works engine tuner

[WilDun]

Your wonderful words about the OP Uniflow mechanism, have led me to wonder why the 1951 piaggio OP engine was not commercialized .........

I don't call in here much these days! -

I think that the opposed piston engine is not really viable in a motorcycle in the form of single cylinder, (being a little awkward to fit in a frame, - it seemed to fit ok in the Vespa speed record type frame. .......
I know that Neil's Hintz's experiment is a single cylinder because it is just that (an experiment)! - But it is a well known fact that if it eventually becomes a 3cylinder (6 pistons) it then becomes a much more compact engine to deal with! (and I'm told that with 3 exhausts going into one pipe there will be further benefits!). - Just a thought!

Congrats on your futuristic thoughts on engine design Niels Abildgaard!

[ceci]

I don't call in here much these days! -

I think that the opposed piston engine is not really viable in a motorcycle in the form of single cylinder, (being a little awkward to fit in a frame, - it seemed to fit ok in the Vespa speed record type frame. .......

I don't think it was due to space in the chassis, I think it was due to price "the Vespa engine that I have always known is simple and cheap" the one with the record, it is the opposite.

This is another approach: a manufacturer has to manufacture the technology that he is capable of doing, or the one that his clientele is capable of buying.

[WilDun]

I don't think it was due to space in the chassis, I think it was due to price "the Vespa engine that I have always known is simple and cheap" the one with the record, it is the opposite.

This is another approach: a manufacturer has to manufacture the technology that he is capable of doing, or the one that his clientele is capable of buying.

To be honest, I think that the buying public is swayed more by fashion than anything else! - the most important thing to them is how many "accessories" they have fitted (or have got someone else to fit for them!) - what the engine is all about, escapes them!.

[ceci]

To be honest, I think that the buying public is swayed more by fashion than anything else! - the most important thing to them is how many "accessories" they have fitted (or have got someone else to fit for them!) - what the engine is all about, escapes them!.

Do you think that they would sell 80,000 units between the Bimota VDue, Suter and Vins, as if Vespa did it with its 150 GS (VS5) model between 1958 - 1961.

True technology is the one that reaches everyone, not a privileged few

[WilDun]

Do you think that they would sell 80,000 units between the Bimota VDue, Suter and Vins, as if Vespa did it with its 150 GS (VS5) model between 1958 - 1961.

True technology is the one that reaches everyone, not a privileged few

No, but times were different then, - recovering from war, need for cheap transport, engine design not a consideration, just something to get around on and attract attention - my Vespa's better than your's, no it's not! etc. - V-Due, Suter, etc - very interesting to the likes of us of course, but overpriced, in danger of being legislated off the planet - grasping at the last remaining straws! - now forcibly being wiped out by electrics, just as the extremely interesting piston aero engines developed during and after WW2 were - potentially successful designs, but wiped out and relegated to history by gas turbines!
Long may the interest in two strokes last here! but fewer and fewer engines available anymore for Buckets!
So people (like some on here) now producing their own!

[Larry Wiechman]

The opposed piston configuration would be wonderful for a diesel. What ignition scheme for spark ignition? A series of radial, pre-chamber flame jets?

[Flettner]

To be honest, I think that the buying public is swayed more by fashion than anything else! - the most important thing to them is how many "accessories" they have fitted (or have got someone else to fit for them!) - what the engine is all about, escapes them!.

The opposed piston configuration would be wonderful for a diesel. What ignition scheme for spark ignition? A series of radial, pre-chamber flame jets?

Haha, have you been lurking around my workshop. Three plugs in three chambers. If thats not a go I have a second more cunning scheme.

Im not keen on diesel.

Uniflow cost, complexity?
Carburetors, cheap.
Single cylinder, plated as such.
Crankshafts, yes two, but smaller ones and they eliminate the need for a balance shaft. It could be reasoned that the second crank is a balance shaft.
An OP 175cc is not twice the length of a single cylinder loop scavenge 175cc. Including the sparkplug on a loop scavenge engine there is not much in it.
Crank joining gears are already in the average twostroke bike engine, the cost of the cylinder head? There isn't one so no, nothing extra.

Where is the extra cost?

[lohring]

The opposed piston configuration would be wonderful for a diesel. What ignition scheme for spark ignition? A series of radial, pre-chamber flame jets?

The original successful OP engine was the Junkers diesel. Fairbanks Morse made an opposed piston engine for railroad engine use. Today Cummins is investigating the Achetes engine for various applications. Below is the ignition concept for a gasoline opposed piston engine. The concept is alive and well.

Lohring Miller

[Peter1962]

Haha, have you been lurking around my workshop. Three plugs in three chambers. If thats not a go I have a second more cunning scheme.

Im not keen on diesel.

Uniflow cost, complexity?
Carburetors, cheap.
Single cylinder, plated as such.
Crankshafts, yes two, but smaller ones and they eliminate the need for a balance shaft. It could be reasoned that the second crank is a balance shaft.
An OP 175cc is not twice the length of a single cylinder loop scavenge 175cc. Including the sparkplug on a loop scavenge engine there is not much in it.
Crank joining gears are already in the average twostroke bike engine, the cost of the cylinder head? There isn't one so no, nothing extra.

Where is the extra cost?

Neil, do you think it would be a viable plan to make a 'kit' OP for a mass produced two stroke mono like the 250 or 300cc KTM SX, XC or XCW series ? That is a big market, more 300cc enduro 2 strokes are sold than 450 4 strokes.

[Larry Wiechman]

[QUOTE=lohring;1131203138]The original successful OP engine was the Junkers diesel. Fairbanks Morse made an opposed piston engine for railroad engine use.

Lohring Miller

The Fairbanks-Morse factory in Beloit, Wisconsin is 5 miles from my home. I'll see if I can find a talkative engineer.

[Niels Abildgaard]

http://chevy57.free.fr/FORUM/junkers..._crosshead.gif

[Flettner]

http://chevy57.free.fr/FORUM/junkers..._crosshead.gif

Very nice but not practical on a 175cc off road bike.

[Flettner]

Neil, do you think it would be a viable plan to make a 'kit' OP for a mass produced two stroke mono like the 250 or 300cc KTM SX, XC or XCW series ? That is a big market, more 300cc enduro 2 strokes are sold than 450 4 strokes.

Totally but I can't with my meager resources.
The plan is to run this 175, in a bike, sort out the details as it is, a stand up engine. If I can get acceptable results Ill build a second engine but laying down, a compact version.
The idea is to have a running working rideable bike, or I dont consider it a success. Not just petty pictures. After that??? The world seems to want electric I guess now.

[Flettner]

A line up of cylinders off to heat treatments. More on the way soon, note the 175cc OP uniflow cylinder casting is also now a workable unit.

[wobbly]

No Neil " the world " doesn't want electric.
We are being continually force fed an insidious party line of complete bullshit about an EVs environmental impacts that has no basis in actual reality.
Apart from the huge impact of the millions of tons of mined rare earth metals needed to actually make the batteries ( just another finite resource ) , and some of the dirtyest manufacturing processes of any current industry ,
the vast majority of EVs power consumed around the world, is supplied via coal and or gas.

Here in NZ the situation is even stupider , we cant keep up the current grid supply ( minimal EV usage ) without spending millions of overseas funds on imported crap coal from Asia to power Huntly, when there is some of
the best cleanest coal just down the road . That's why it was built there.

But our lip service " green " virtue signaling govt has banned its use. How could they possibly " save the planet " when they are completely off it most of the time.
How the hell is our infrastructure going to cope with hundreds of thousands of extra KwH being pumped into cars continuously.
End of off topic rant , sorry.