ESE's works engine tuner

[TZ350]

One or two people have been talking about getting IgniTech Ignitions.

There is a DC-CDI-P2 and DC-CDI-P2 Race, I don't know what the difference between them is but we run the Race version ourselves.

IgniTech CDI Ignition http://www.ignitech.cz/english/aindex.htm

The Sparker DC-CDI-P2 Race can be run “Total Loss” from a battery and/or with a 12v generator ignition and capacitor from a late model Mxer.

The Sparker DC-CDI-P2 Race is for twin 2-strokes like the RGV but one channel can be turned off and the Sparker is good for a single cylinder.



Its best to get one with the plug pre-wired with 2m flying leads, as its a bitch wiring the plug yourself.

Our Igni Ignition is programmed through a computers serial port, I am not sure if there is a USB version, it would pay to check that out as computers/laptops with serial ports are getting hard to find.

Sparker DC-CDI-P2 Race http://www.ignitech.cz/english/aindex.htm

These are available from Wobbly (I think) or directly from IgniTech.

[wobbly]

The Ignitech RACE ECU has the same functionality as the normal P2 except has the extra capability of a second curve,that can be invoked via a handlebar switch or several other trick methods using a pot on the gearchange drum, or a set acceleration rate etc.
Both are programmed via serial port, but can be used with a USB adapter and downloading the specific driver for this.
USB is very prone to RF interference when used with a running bike on the dyno, and causes crashes just when not needed.

Total loss is OK, but I prefer to use a small battery and the charging system, as this then runs at 14.2V all the time, and has power on board to run the ECU for programming without the bike running.

It isnt advisable to use a trigger as shown in the att, as the floating input on the ECU needs a two wire trigger to isolate it from the noisy chassis earth.

I have the P2 and looms in stock - with my own special version of the software, but have some RACE on the way now.

[F5 Dave]

Ooh so you program in your 'wet' curve for if it starts pizzin down. Kinda thought this was tosh but I used my GasGas300 in the weekend in muddy conditions & selected wet mode for the first time. It was brilliant. Course they probably have some development riders to sort the correct curve out to stop it spitting you off without slowing things down too much.

Then of course these days if it rains I question my whole commitment to the cause anyway.

[kel]

I have the P2 and looms in stock - with my own special version of the software, but have some RACE on the way now.

How much do these go for?

[TZ350]

It isnt advisable to use a trigger as shown in the att, as the floating input on the ECU needs a two wire trigger to isolate it from the noisy chassis earth.

Thats interesting, NedKelly runs a single wire pickup and when Neds battery gets low <14v and he has to rely on the generator he has all sorts of missfiring problems.



The numbers written on Neds flywheel is the basic setup data for his IgniTech, my engine setup data is different as the position of my pickup and the length of the trigger part on the flywheel is also different to Neds.

I have seen people at race meetings who have not properly marked their flywheels struggling to get their bike going again after disturbing the ignition during a pitside repair.



My own engine uses a two wire pickup from a KX80, I use the flywheel as my motor likes some flywheel inertia and the KX80's flywheel taper fits the GP but I have discarded the HV charging coils.

Total loss is OK, but I prefer to use a small battery and the charging system, as this then runs at 14.2V all the time, and has power on board to run the ECU for programming without the bike running.

This YZ125 flywheel taper is to small for the GP and the four pole stator is a high voltage CDI charger, I think you need an eight pole stator from a late model MX to get a 14.5V generator for charging a battery.

The problem for us is that late model KX and RM125's which have the battery charging coils have a flywheel taper thats to big for the GP.



Neds battery box is under the tail section.



The ignition unit is protected from water and well away from the HV ignition coil.

[wobbly]

The 4 pole stator can be rewound with heavyer wire to give plenty of grunt to run the Ignitech.They only draw about 1.5A @ 14.2V at full noise.
I use an 8 pole stator on the TSS bikes,and this can supply over 10A.
The tapers are all the same ( 1:5 ) on all these engines, so its easy to make a thin wall sleeve to fit a big bore rotor onto any shaft, the key isnt needed except to replicate the original base timing.
You have to be careful re trigger bar length, as I discovered after 2 days waisted on the dyno.
Anything more than about 20mm of bar length, and the voltage drops,before the end of the bar - as it moves under the trigger pole , and you get missfires for no apparent reason.
Short ie less than 4mm is fine.
Contact me via a PM and I will do a cash deal for you guys on a Ignitech.

[TZ350]

From page 181



Attachment 223789Attachment 223788Attachment 223787

10.74 AC Volts from the generator, 13.9 DC Volts from the Pit Bike Rectifier/Regulator.

The 4 pole stator can be rewound with heavyer wire to give plenty of grunt to run the Ignitech.

We tried winding our own charging coil, good for 12V but wound up using a 14.5V battery. You can see in the attachments we used a light bulb to load the generator when taking our voltage readings.

Can you tell me more about the number of turns you used, from memory we had about 420.

[wobbly]

I dont have a record of the turns, but if you were only delivering 10 odd V Ac then that means the wire was too big in Dia.
You need smaller wire and over 20V Ac into the rec/reg driving a battery load.
I dont think you would ever get sufficient VA from a single coil, the 4 pole rewound would work a treat.

[wobbly]

Not the right place I know - but im after a couple of RZ or Banshee cases in good nick.

[TZ350]

You need smaller wire and over 20V Ac into the rec/reg driving a battery load.

Thanks, we weren’t to sure what voltage to aim for as the voltage varied quite a bit as the engine revs increased. We tried to keep things below 20V, as we were concerned about heat dissipation through the regulator.

I don’t think you would ever get sufficient VA from a single coil, the 4 pole rewound would work a treat.

We wound two coils of 210 turns each and wired them in series for 420 turns total. The wire diameter used for the 1.5A was based on transformer winding specs.

We found plenty of info on the net covering the current capacity of wire when used for coils and transformers and it was always larger than that needed for free air.

The wire we used was about 1mm and brought from JayCar.

We will try (actually Bucket and Thomas) to re-wind the four pole for 20V and 3A at 10,000 rpm so we can run the Igni and a small electric water pump.

[Bert]

Thanks, we weren’t to sure what voltage to aim for as the voltage varied quite a bit as the engine revs increased. We tried to keep things below 20V, as we were concerned about heat dissipation through the regulator.

We will try (actually Bucket and Thomas) to re-wind the four pole for 20V and 3A at 10,000 rpm so we can run the Igni and a small electric water pump.

Keen to see your (Bucket/Thomas)'s progress on this; I'm about at the same point with my build (and power requirements; igni & powervalve servos).

Final specs (even instructions) and photos would be great...

[wobbly]

The wire used for the AC windings was about 0.7mm from memory, as is the wire in a RS125 stator and the 8 pole one I use.
The VA rating stays about the same for various thicknesses and turns ratios, but you get to a point where you make to much V and the wire cant sustain the A on a continuous basis.
As you only draw 1.5A from the Ignitech and about the same for a pump then you are only pulling around 40W, the reg you are using can dump way more than that.

[TZ350]

The wire used for the AC windings was about 0.7mm from memory, as is the wire in a RS125 stator and the 8 pole one I use.

Yes, we tried various thickness of wire, you can get a whole lot more windings on using 0.7 than you can with 1.0.

We will try 0.8 next as the coil stack will be smaller and heat dissipation better with the four pole unit.

As you only draw 1.5A from the Ignitech and about the same for a pump then you are only pulling around 40W, the reg you are using can dump way more than that.

Thats good to hear.

At 40W we thought the regulator would get quite hot as its heat sink looks high-ish in the deg-C temp rise / Watts ratio (as a small heat sink, needs to run hotter than a larger one does to dissipate the same amount of thermal energy ) but we are encouraged by what you say and will give it a go.

Final specs (even instructions) and photos would be great...

It might take a week or three but we will post photos and details of wire and windings etc as we go.

There is a change in Voltage with RPM, the resultant Voltage (EMF) becomes higher (stronger) the faster the flux from the magnetic field cuts through the coil windings.



Spin the magnets faster and you get a higher output Voltage.

Because the final AC Voltage of the generator is RPM related, 20Vac at 12K might only be 10Vac at 8K. Anyone making an AC generator to power a DC Voltage rectifier/regulator for their ignition/battery will have to experiment with the number of turns to get something that suits their own engines working RPM.

Generator Voltage readings are only meaningful if you are measuring them at the same time as current is being drawn from the generator, ie Loading the generator by making it do something, like running a light.

The DC voltage rectifier/regulator at the top of the picture is from a Pit Bike.



The light bulb is there to load the generator for accurate voltage readings under actual working conditions.

DC ignition/battery on the left, AC generator on the right, in this pic we need to add some more windings to get the voltage up.

As the AC voltage is increased the regulator will eventually hold the DC voltage some where near 13.5V for charging 12V batteries, I expect it will take several trys to get it right.

Wobbly suggests the AC generator should be over 20V.

[bucketracer]

Instead of a Pit Bike rectifier/regulator and being stuck with 12Volts, by changing the Zenor diode this could be adapted for working with those 14.5Volt electric drill batteries.

[wobbly]

Be careful with the charge voltage to the 14.5V batterys as I believe you need at least 1.2 or 1.5V above the nominal battery rating to get it to charge.
That is why most reg/rect run at 14.2V - for a 12V battery, and you will start getting a yellow error highlight in the Ignitech screen over 15V.

The finned reg/rec in the pic previously is the same one I use and the factory say its rated to shunt to ground the whole output from my 8 pole, that puts out 30 V and 8A fully loaded.