ESE's works engine tuner

[TZ350]

[Niels Abildgaard]

Have my daughts too frits.
Too much friction in 750cc engine

A kreidler made 440 hp per liter in the 80ties

Aprilia Rsa 432 hp/ l

Best 50 cc today frits ?
Best prooven hp/ liter ever?

I ve heared about slightly over 26 hp on 50cc....ergo 520 hp/ liter...can that be true? 😉

Apropos... feavering for liedolsheim/ germany... 50cc 8H endurance Race in September 👍👍😲😎🥰

Wolfgang

Power per ccm is for amateurs.
The iron power limit is blowdown time area and I started to explain it here in post 34362

[Mike Fisher]

Robby Galletta also mentioned "nitro and other good stuff" or words to that effect. I looked at a few of his YouTiube clips, so the reference to nitro might not have been in the first one that Vannik flagged up

[Wos]

Robby Galletta also mentioned "nitro and other good stuff" or words to that effect. I looked at a few of his YouTiube clips, so the reference to nitro might not have been in the first one that Vannik flagged up

I was talking about pump gas like used in gp even when in the 80 there were leaded pump fuels 😉

Todays i am in liedolsheim only as a spectator and to smell 2 strokes🥰🤣

Grüße Wolfgang

[Wos]

Apropos... feavering for liedolsheim/ germany... 50cc 8H endurance Race in September 👍👍😲😎🥰

Wolfgang

I will be there
Who else?[/QUOTE]

Hey frank

Are you frank schäfer from team 39 lucky Losers? Rider in liedolsheim and porsche mechanik/ engineer...? 😀

Having colleague peter k. from diefenbach?

You will remember my face, when we meet again

But maybe lets talk bevore the race to exchange ideas while drinking a 🍻

Grüße aus Sternenfels ✋😉

Wolfgang

[TZ350]

Power per ccm is for amateurs.

Agreed, but I thought BMEP, break mean effective pressure was the yard stick by which you could compare internal combustion engines, even engines of different types and configurations.

[Peljhan]

Peljhan , the factors in play to kill top end are MSV , that obviously has changed dramatically with the closing up of the clearance, compression , that should be the same cc
or finally maybe the head was deforming previously - as you said the new one was alot stronger.
In any case the instant result of any factor like this is a big drop in EGT - so you need to start logging this , as to get a real correlation between any two setups you should
be adjusting the jetting to hit a target egt number..
The fix is a reduction in ignition timing , past the point where the power graphs cross.

Thanks. Will dismantle it over winter and do exact measurements. Will also try to fit the old head back and do testing again.
I got open tip egt sensors you suggested, but my dyno has no option to plug them. I must get some kind of data logger. May I ask what sampling rate you use for your EGT?
For now I have only stack EGT gauge with closed tip, do you think I can change only probe on this gauge?
And I was reading somewhere, that sensors need to be correctly plugged/soldered to measure correctly but I can't find info anymore, I think I got it somewhere on egt page.

[lohring]

We tested our 26 & 35 cc race engines with a Performance Trends data logger and their dyno software. Today their data logger is more compact and has a weather station. https://www.performancetrends.com/dtm-dyno.htm Below is an article on our dyno. A more modern version has been built by Mark Anderson to continue testing our small race engines and pipes.

Lohring Miller

[Niels Abildgaard]

Agreed, but I thought BMEP, break mean effective pressure was the yard stick by which you could compare internal combustion engines, even engines of different types and configurations.

For a first sketch of a super two stroke cylinder one can do worse than scaling a RSA.
54 horsepower from 125ccm and had cost a zillion to devellop.
54 has not been bettered in the meantime.
If we go for a 250ccm cylinder by multiplying all lengths dimensions by cuberoot of 2 (1.26) the blowdown-timearea becomes 1.59 times bigger and therefore max power can be tuned to 86 horsepower with clever people and money enough..
A 50 cubic cylinder as clever as RSA with tuned exhaust can by the same method be calculated to have a max power potential of 29 horsepower and a 26ccm ca 19 horsepower

[wobbly]

Peljhan , the Stack is way too slow , hasnt got max recall , and the enclosed tip type probe will never keep up with a racing 2Ts temp delta.
My software samples the egt up to 100X / sec and needs minimal smoothing , but I tried 10X and the result was all but identical.
Plus the Stinger exposed tip probe is real fast and importantly can be located on the header centerline.

You need the speed , and more importantly , having a graphed output , showing when a leaner jet change does not achieve a consistent temp rise - this shows you instantly deto is starting
due to rising free radical formation under the ring is robbing heat energy , and gives you a direct indication of best power egt level.

I also have 0-5V deto level being logged , but as the egt stops me from being dumb and getting into enough deto to hurt a piston , its now pretty much redundant information.
Except for seeing when say a pipe or head modification reduces the background deto level , that subsequently can give more leeway to lean on an engine to extract more performance.
This is what I like about toroidal chambers.

There is also a Lambda if I want , but I found that although it accurately shows what the oxygen level is in the exhaust gas , this metrics scaling doesn't change significantly enough as you
hone in real close to your best tune.

[Frank S.]

Wolfgang

You got me...

Grüße aus Göbrichen

[yatasaki]

Apropos... feavering for liedolsheim/ germany... 50cc 8H endurance Race in September ����������

Wolfgang

I will be there
Who else?[/QUOTE]
We go for 24h endurance in Serbia beg. of october.
Aircooled only

[Wos]

Wolfgang

You got me...

Grüße aus Göbrichen[/QUOTE]

Sended a pm to you...

[wobbly]

Wos , the unleaded FIM GP fuel brought into being in 1998 was nominally 100 octane , but was so dangerous to handle gloves and a respirator had to be used to fill the tanks.
Teams also refrigerated it prior to use.
Elf did a ton of research on the mix , ending up with what was called MITS 32 that would literally melt your nose.
So much for the virtue signaling clean green bullshit.

[husaberg]

Wos , the unleaded FIM fuel brought into being in 1988 was nominally 100 octane , but was so dangerous to handle gloves and a respirator had to be used to fill the tanks.
Teams also refrigerated it prior to use.
Elf did a ton of research on the mix , ending up with what was called MITS 32 that would literally melt your nose.
So much for the virtue signaling clean green bullshit.

I assumed they did this as by refrigerating it they can have more fuel for the same volume ie increased density (until it warms up anyway.) in the same size tank