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Thread: ESE's works engine tuner

  1. #38596
    Join Date
    5th October 2023 - 00:41
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    Honda CRF450R
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    Cyl cooling

    Quote Originally Posted by wobbly View Post
    The factory deleted the water entry up under the Exhaust duct completely with the R1 , as this means the duct heats all the cold water before it runs over the transfer tops.
    The 10B and 10C they added a side water hose to push cold water over the duct top only.
    The best solution is to use an extended spigot over the top of the duct with holes pointing back over the transfers , and have 2 x3mm holes up from the case to keep some flow
    travelling up to the head.
    Thr R2 has my spigot extension within the casting , it just needs the 3mm holes to move water around the duct from the case.
    This can also be done to a Vortex , as it has a threaded hole in the cylinder - the CIK have confirmed to me in writing this is legal.
    Hello to everybody.
    My name is Andrea (53 yo) and I am a mechanical engineer living in Italy.
    In the middle of july I started to investigate (helped by Neels) how cylinder and engine case cooling impact on 2 stroke engine performances.
    Info by wobbly are clear, cold water goes to cool transfers by the 2 holes on the spigot, while duct roof is cooled by other holes. Isn't it?
    Is it possible to get other pictures of the spigot and the duct cooling case showed?
    In this cooling system how TM manage water flow around the duct (duct floor)? Water exit is always on the cyl head. How is the water flow around the duct?

    What about cyl head cooling? Are there any concerns lowering temperature of the head dome? And squish area?

    What happens if I let cold water in through the head (currently the outlet) and out through the current inlet?

    This is the first time in this forum, if I did something “wrong” please help to avoid this in the next posts.

    Grazie 1000 and Regards
    Andrea

  2. #38597
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    2nd March 2013 - 15:04
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    Jan Thiel's book is now available in English. Here are the ordering details:

    Price is 25€ per book plus shipping.
    Shipping costs are:
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    Rest of the World 22€

    To order more than one book, email to LegacyJanThiel@gmail.com with details and Dolph will calculate the price.
    Indicative shipping costs to NZ: 22€ up to 2 books, 53€ up to 7 books.

    You can pay either by transferring the total to the following bank account:
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    or by PayPal to
    LegacyJanThiel@gmail.com

    Please add 3% for the Paypal fee.

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  3. #38598
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    18th March 2004 - 17:38
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    Fantastic!

    Quote Originally Posted by lodgernz View Post
    Jan Thiel's book is now available in English. Here are the ordering details:

    Price is 25€ per book plus shipping.
    Shipping costs are:
    Netherlands 7€
    European Union 11€
    Rest of Europe 14€
    Rest of the World 22€

    To order more than one book, email to LegacyJanThiel@gmail.com with details and Dolph will calculate the price.
    Indicative shipping costs to NZ: 22€ up to 2 books, 53€ up to 7 books.

    You can pay either by transferring the total to the following bank account:
    Stichting legacy Jan Thiel
    IBAN: NL95 BUNQ 2085 4413 19

    or by PayPal to
    LegacyJanThiel@gmail.com

    Please add 3% for the Paypal fee.

    Whatever payment method you use, please add a telephone number for the customs declaration, your email for shipping tracing, and leave your full shipping details in the remarks or email to LegacyJanThiel@gmail.com!
    I have been waiting for this! Since my dutch " ist Boss "
    Compare Pornography now to 50 years ago.
    Then extrapolate 50 years into the future.
    . . . That shit's Nasty.

  4. #38599
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    8th February 2007 - 20:42
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    TZ400
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    Cylinder Cooling. The problem faced is that we have conflicting requirements in different areas.
    We want cold water over ( and preferably ) between the bore and the transfers as well as between the crankcase and the gearbox.
    Plus we want to keep the squish surface area as cool as possible as well.
    The real hard factor to achieve separately is we want the combustion chamber surface to be hotter , to reduce the temperature delta between it and the burning/expanding gases.
    This also reduces the flow of heat energy into the water , directly from the head inner surface.

    The TM factory used my idea of a directional control tube over the Exhaust duct that forced cold water directly back over the transfers
    by including it in the casting cores.
    But they still have the original holes in the case and cylinder , under the Exhaust duct - blocked off.
    Thus now in the R2 we have cooler transfers , but only very indirect cooling of the Exhaust duct within the casting.
    This is easily fixed by drilling two small holes down into the cold water in the case , with matching holes up under the duct.

    Reversing the flow idea may have some advantages , but the worst downside is that no matter how you do it , you will always have hot water between the crankcase and the gearbox.
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    Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.

  5. #38600
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    25th March 2004 - 17:22
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    So perhaps a 2 piece head with ceramic inset in chamber. Nah probably fall out. Hmm. ,
    Don't you look at my accountant.
    He's the only one I've got.

  6. #38601
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    5th October 2023 - 00:41
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    Honda CRF450R
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    Italy
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    4

    cyl cooling

    Quote Originally Posted by wobbly View Post
    Cylinder Cooling. The problem faced is that we have conflicting requirements in different areas.
    We want cold water over ( and preferably ) between the bore and the transfers as well as between the crankcase and the gearbox.
    Plus we want to keep the squish surface area as cool as possible as well.
    The real hard factor to achieve separately is we want the combustion chamber surface to be hotter , to reduce the temperature delta between it and the burning/expanding gases.
    This also reduces the flow of heat energy into the water , directly from the head inner surface.

    The TM factory used my idea of a directional control tube over the Exhaust duct that forced cold water directly back over the transfers
    by including it in the casting cores.
    But they still have the original holes in the case and cylinder , under the Exhaust duct - blocked off.
    Thus now in the R2 we have cooler transfers , but only very indirect cooling of the Exhaust duct within the casting.
    This is easily fixed by drilling two small holes down into the cold water in the case , with matching holes up under the duct.

    Reversing the flow idea may have some advantages , but the worst downside is that no matter how you do it , you will always have hot water between the crankcase and the gearbox.


    Thanks Wobbly for the clarification on the water flow in the cylinder.
    I wanted to reverse the water flow in an existing engine to see if there was a performance increase.
    The engine is from a direct drive kart so the heat coming from the gearbox is not present and the water marginally cools the crankcase.
    The biggest problem is the cooling of the combustion chamber dome which could reduce the benefit of the cooling of the transfers.

    What risk do I run if I try to reverse the flow of water?

    Thanks

    AM

  7. #38602
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    25th March 2004 - 17:22
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    Bike pit starter

    Wish I'd had one of these https://bikestarters.com/product/2-5...-bike-starter/
    20 years ago when I was looking to buy a mate's 256 Rotax GP bike. I've since used home made versions, but these are clean.

    Main reason I didn't buy the bike was that I'd likely be traveling by myself to Bears events etc.
    With Mikunis it started beautifully with helper pushing. Or 5/10 Χ by yourself. At a trackday I slightly flooded it and arrived at staging hot sweating and puffing.
    Nightmare.

    Of course I couldn't have afforded the bike and starter even home made back then. . .
    Don't you look at my accountant.
    He's the only one I've got.

  8. #38603
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    20th January 2010 - 14:41
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    husaberg
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    Quote Originally Posted by F5 Dave View Post
    Wish I'd had one of these https://bikestarters.com/product/2-5...-bike-starter/
    20 years ago when I was looking to buy a mate's 256 Rotax GP bike. I've since used home made versions, but these are clean.

    Main reason I didn't buy the bike was that I'd likely be traveling by myself to Bears events etc.
    With Mikunis it started beautifully with helper pushing. Or 5/10 Χ by yourself. At a trackday I slightly flooded it and arrived at staging hot sweating and puffing.
    Nightmare.

    Of course I couldn't have afforded the bike and starter even home made back then. . .
    A few weeks ago I watched a guy on a modern 4 (honda 600 I think getting pushed up and down the pits with his mates falling in heaps as it refused to fire For about 10 minutes.
    I was struck with the realisation that if only Honda had of thought to add a starter motor to its street bikes over 205cc back in the 1960's.
    one of the reasons that the first KR250's were 180 cranks was it was easier to start as all gp were push starts back then. As well as easier on the coupling gears



    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  9. #38604
    Join Date
    15th May 2017 - 14:26
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    2002 Aprlia RS125
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    Quote Originally Posted by lodgernz View Post
    Jan Thiel's book is now available in English. Here are the ordering details:

    Price is 25€ per book plus shipping.
    Shipping costs are:
    Netherlands 7€
    European Union 11€
    Rest of Europe 14€
    Rest of the World 22€

    To order more than one book, email to LegacyJanThiel@gmail.com with details and Dolph will calculate the price.
    Indicative shipping costs to NZ: 22€ up to 2 books, 53€ up to 7 books.

    You can pay either by transferring the total to the following bank account:
    Stichting legacy Jan Thiel
    IBAN: NL95 BUNQ 2085 4413 19

    or by PayPal to
    LegacyJanThiel@gmail.com

    Please add 3% for the Paypal fee.

    Whatever payment method you use, please add a telephone number for the customs declaration, your email for shipping tracing, and leave your full shipping details in the remarks or email to LegacyJanThiel@gmail.com!
    Anyone getting this book sent to NZ who what’s to share shipping?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  10. #38605
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    25th March 2004 - 17:22
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyonly View Post
    Anyone getting this book sent to NZ who what’s to share shipping?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I'm happy to contribute to a group buy but I can't walk to post office etc so can't be distributor.

    Local postage might eat up savings?
    Don't you look at my accountant.
    He's the only one I've got.

  11. #38606
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    25th March 2004 - 17:22
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    A few weeks ago I watched a guy on a modern 4 (honda 600 I think getting pushed up and down the pits with his mates falling in heaps as it refused to fire For about 10 minutes.
    I was struck with the realisation that if only Honda had of thought to add a starter motor to its street bikes over 205cc back in the 1960's.
    one of the reasons that the first KR250's were 180 cranks was it was easier to start as all gp were push starts back then. As well as easier on the coupling gears
    It's other 2 problems we're the ally square tube frame was built '83/84 so wrong side of pre '82 class. And converted to 17' from 16'. No room for wheels that could carry 250 slicks. Chain scrapped against an ancient 150 or the frame if spaced.
    Don't you look at my accountant.
    He's the only one I've got.

  12. #38607
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    20th January 2010 - 14:41
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    Quote Originally Posted by F5 Dave View Post
    It's other 2 problems we're the ally square tube frame was built '83/84 so wrong side of pre '82 class. And converted to 17' from 16'. No room for wheels that could carry 250 slicks. Chain scrapped against an ancient 150 or the frame if spaced.
    1981 waddon
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Cameron on KR250
    First was heavy vibration, caused by the engine’s one-up/one-down 180-degree firing order, which broke front exhaust pipes (until the team provided a spring-joint in that pipe at the failure point) and sometimes shook the check-valve in the front brake master cylinder such that the rider could pull the lever to the bar without effect. At the US Loudon national the vibration of Harry Klinzmann’s KR-250 broke four of the six tubes supporting its steering head, allowing the remaining two to bend as the front wheel raked itself out!

    The vibration problem was solved by changing firing order to 360 degrees (both pistons moving up and down and firing together). When used with a 100-percent balance factor this made the engine quite smooth because:

    At TDC and BDC the pistons were going one way and the balance weights the opposite.
    At mid-stroke, the front balance weight was yanking forward and the rear crank's weight was yanking backward.
    The contra-rotating cranks were geared together by two thin, roughly 4-inch diameter phasing gears, which dipped into gearbox oil. Spinning at 12,000-rpm these gears whipped such heat into the gear oil that paint was burned off the early engines. The first-order “fix” was to drop the original 1,100cc gearbox oil quantity (up to the shaft axes) to 600cc (mostly only first and second wheels actually now touched the oil)

    A better fix was to separate the phasing gears from the gearbox oil with a “fence” save for a 1mm hole to let oil in. Gear action would then throw the used oil back “over the fence.” The low oil level required pre-lubing every gear during assembly, for otherwise a dry gearbox would squeal at first start-up.



    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  13. #38608
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    25th March 2004 - 17:22
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    Yeah it (1980 engine) was in an Armstrong frame before I believe (which likely would have been 82 eligible I guess). Holden probably would have had people to push start him, - before my time though.
    Don't you look at my accountant.
    He's the only one I've got.

  14. #38609
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    24th April 2016 - 19:07
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    Quote Originally Posted by jato View Post
    Re auxillary exhaust ports; i am assisting a small amount with building a set of kawasaki triple cylinders - modern port layout with reedvalves fitted but still non powervalve. at this stage the aux exhaust ducts need to do a gentle loop around the outside of the forward cylinder studs - would this be a no go? the alternative is to relocate the studs but this is not the most preferred solution. any thoughts?
    bump - just in case this was missed ...

  15. #38610
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    13th June 2010 - 17:47
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    Quote Originally Posted by jato View Post
    bump - just in case this was missed ...
    Somewhere back in this thread I remember seeing inserts in stud bores which were shaped to be part of the aux exhausts - but had studs screwed into them above and below.

    Husa ? Ring a bell or can we use your search ninja skills please.

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