ESE's works engine tuner

[kel]

Ok Kel is the test pilot...........

Right, ESE have agreed to my terms and conditions so looks like we are all go for next month, thankfully they have short memories, my last encounter with the ESE bike went a little like this

[ac3_snow]

I can re-cut the taper if you want

Is there anything you guys can't do?

marks TS100 has 1995 RM80 set up, taper was fine,and we ran 1980-85 RM80 and 125 rotaors on our RG50s and TS100 motors,fitted good.

Yeap I had a look at it again today and the taper is correct but the rm80 crank seems to have been shorter so the rm80 rotor on my Tf crank sits out further.
I figure I could make a plate to mount the stator on to bring it out 10mm to meet the rotor. The weight of the rotor still sits in the same position on the crank so I don't see it causing any problems?

[F5 Dave]

Hard to see in pics, but a zillion have been made with a plate converter. Or you could get someone to cut the taper bigger. Don't need much to move it quite a bit. You don't 'need' the woodruff key, it's just there for aiding assembly, if the taper wasn't gripping it will break. But I like to re add it as it makes assembly a breeze.

[TZ350]

A couple of ignitions that have had spacer plates made for them.

[ac3_snow]

hopefully the answer to this one isn't quite so obvious. I realise I will need to spend the time with a timing light to get the spark at the right point, as Tomas did way back when.

.
The steps were.

1: Set the piston position at the correct firing point using a DTI in the plughole.

2: Clean and re-mark the flywheel so the actual firing point can be checked with a Timing light.

3: Make adjustments and go back to 1: Repeat untill you get it right.

There is about 15 degrees of retard built into the CDI and Tomas set the advance at 35 degrees BTDC at idle so the ignition retarded to the correct setting of 20 degrees BTDC at 8,000 rpm which is the point that the GP comes onto the pipe.

Tomas had to go through the process of making adjustments, setting the piston position and remarking the flywheel several times to get it right but it runs like a charm now.

.

But the RM flywheel does not have any markings which indicate at which point on the flywheel it would fire. Have spent all morning and all I have been able to find out is that it may spark when the keway is at the midpoint on the stator as pictured(doesn't sound too scientific to me). Does anyone know if this is in the right ball park, I don't see anyway to find the spark point with out either a timing mark on the flywheel(as Tomas found with the gp/tf, the keway can be different anyway) or a running engine?

If it does fire at that point then it is close to TDC there and would give me a good starting point for when I get a timing light onto it. If not them I'm a little lost..

[jasonu]

Is there anything you guys can't do?

Yeap I had a look at it again today and the taper is correct but the rm80 crank seems to have been shorter so the rm80 rotor on my Tf crank sits out further.
Correct
I figure I could make a plate to mount the stator on to bring it out 10mm to meet the rotor. The weight of the rotor still sits in the same position on the crank so I don't see it causing any problems?
That is correct also.

10characters

[jasonu]

You don't 'need' the woodruff key, it's just there for aiding assembly, if the taper wasn't gripping it will break. But I like to re add it as it makes assembly a breeze.

Really Dave, are you serious about not needing the key???
If you don't use it to clock the flywheel to the crank in the exact same place everytime your timeing will be different (ie fucked up.)

[TZ350]

With a timing light and the help of a friend its pretty easy to get a RM ignition setup.



Mark the stator with a felt tip. Have your friend spin the motor over, now you should be able to pickup a spot on the rotor that matches the stator when the timing light flashes.

Mark the spot on the rotor that you saw with the timing light, like in the picture, these two points should line up when the timing light flashes, now you have a reference point for setting the ignition timing.

Turn the crank until the piston is 20deg BTDC (1.6mm or whatever timing you want). Now hold the crank steady and turn the stator plate so your marks line up again and presto, your ready for a trial run or the dyno.

But remember, this only gets you going, you still have to dial in the ignition timing exactly, and a dyno is probably the best place for that.

[F5 Dave]

Really Dave, are you serious about not needing the key???
If you don't use it to clock the flywheel to the crank in the exact same place everytime your timeing will be different (ie fucked up.)

Hey plenty of people don't use a key. Just you have to find out where you are at & rescribe new marks & faff about. That's why I always go to the hassle of regrooving a keyway. Sometimes in a different position that suits where the pulsar coil fits into the cases best on that engine with a bit of wriggle room if it is asymetrical.

I was just pointing out that it is the taper that provides the strength of the joint, not the key as is commonly thought & that you can run without it if you must.

[jasonu]

Hey plenty of people don't use a key. Just you have to find out where you are at & rescribe new marks & faff about. That's why I always go to the hassle of regrooving a keyway. Sometimes in a different position that suits where the pulsar coil fits into the cases best on that engine with a bit of wriggle room if it is asymetrical.

I was just pointing out that it is the taper that provides the strength of the joint, not the key as is commonly thought & that you can run without it if you must.

A dodgey practise frought with perils I say.

[gatch]

Hey plenty of people don't use a key. Just you have to find out where you are at & rescribe new marks & faff about. That's why I always go to the hassle of regrooving a keyway. Sometimes in a different position that suits where the pulsar coil fits into the cases best on that engine with a bit of wriggle room if it is asymetrical.

I was just pointing out that it is the taper that provides the strength of the joint, not the key as is commonly thought & that you can run without it if you must.

+1

Woodruff keys are not absolutely necessary, but makes timing anything 10x easier. Ignitions, machinery parts, whatever.. You can do without if you have to but use em if you got em.

[ac3_snow]

Alright thanks for the advice everyone. I never really thought about it just assumed that the engine needed to be running for a timing light to work. So borrowed a broken timing light which isn't so broken any more. Then spent the rest of the night making a rather boogie spacer plate, solid as tho. Working tomorrow so with the girlfriends alowance I might be able to dail in the ignition sunday.

Turn the crank until the piston is 20deg BTDC (1.6mm or whatever timing you want)

Your wisdom has been pretty spot on so far so I won't start doubting you now!

[bucketracer]

Some things that might be helpful.

BTDC means turning the crank clockwise when looking from this side.

These RM ignitions have quite a heavy retard initially so when setting them up you need to spin the engine fairly fast to find the initial steady firing point.

Then from 2,000rpm to 8,000 they retard about 7-9 deg. So you need about 26 deg initial advance at 2,000 rpm.



If you compare the angle between the ignition stator and cylinder base of the RG50 (R/H Pic) you will see you have to turn your stator slightly clockwise but otherwise your pretty much on the money.

[F5 Dave]

arrgh! again

Apostrophe 'e'

'you are'

is shortened to

'you're '

not 'your'

How many times????


I remember seeing a RG50 pilot setting his timing a ways back. He'd loosen the mounting plate screws, start the bike, hold it wide open & push the plate back & forward until it sounded like it was revving highest. Made me shudder.

[ac3_snow]

Your wisdom has...

You are wisdom has...??

you will see you have to turn your stator slightly clockwise

you will see you have to turn you are stator slightly clockwise....??

arrgh! again

Apostrophe 'e'

'you are'

is shortened to

'you're '

not 'your'

How many times????

arrrrghhh matey correct but not in this scenario I believe... these are what you're referring to? correct me if I'm wrong.