ESE's works engine tuner

[Wos]

Don't remember what you're using for an ignition - but can you dial in some more advance at that point ?

If i remember correctly...a programmable ignition was on the playground

Thats a good chance to get pipe temperatures more in ballpark

A child is sound...if it is playing

[Flettner]

Don't remember what you're using for an ignition - but can you dial in some more advance at that point ?

An Ignitech and yes Ive advanced a lot off the pipes, made a world of difference, but if I try anymore around the transition, deto is waiting. After 7500 its fine, we are into it and retarding by the anyway.

[ken seeber]

Gillette principle. Well, we have two pipes.
How about three?

So Mr F6, using the Gllette principle , Neil collaborated (made all the castings) with me for the 3 pipe system, so I guess it's now time for the 4 pipes..

[F5 Dave]

Golly, things are accelerating and we haven't even put a Teflon glide strip anywhere yet.

[Grumph]

Gillette principle. Well, we have two pipes.
How about three?

You've still got some catching up to do Ken.

These things even use reed valves

[Wos]

An Ignitech and yes Ive advanced a lot off the pipes, made a world of difference, but if I try anymore around the transition, deto is waiting. After 7500 its fine, we are into it and retarding by the anyway.

Dear Flettner...hope you are away from to much advance at peak now...?

And i hope your advance is not to high after pipe is in resonance...both could be killing by detonation or only overheating...

Further you can gain much overrev after peak power...3 dergree less 500 rev after peak and so on..since you arrived 6 degree. .than flatout.
not fitting for every setup exactly..but a guidline for carb without a shut off powerjet ...carbs that not leaning after peak power any way

Whish good luck in continuing playing

Wolfgang

[Flettner]

Dear Flettner...hope you are away from to much advance at peak now...?

And i hope your advance is not to high after pipe is in resonance...both could be killing by detonation or only overheating...

Further you can gain much overrev after peak power...3 dergree less 500 rev after peak and so on..since you arrived 6 degree. .than flatout.
not fitting for every setup exactly..but a guidline for carb without a shut off powerjet ...carbs that not leaning after peak power any way

Whish good luck in continuing playing

Wolfgang

Is this acceptable Wolfgang? Remember the only dyno this bike has seen is my 'bum'.

[Mollihead]

For me the curve looks strange. At which RPM you expect your peak power?
Normally this should be at 15degree and falling down to 10 or lower behind the peak.

Is there a general offset in the graph?

[wobbly]

30* is too much off the pipe , I would never use more than 28* and that would only be in a situation where you never, ever, sit at part throttle down there.
And every engine , always , should have 15* of timing at peak power , then retard to about 10* at the rpm limit , depending upon how much overev is needed.
But flat lining near peak rpm stops the EGT from rising inexorably , forcing a richer main to be used to prevent overheating , not make power.
The " old " idea of winding in timing on rocket fuels , is nowhere near as powerful as an optimized petrol ignition curve with a suitably high CR.

[Flettner]

This is just a semi educated estimate, its' never been on a dyno yet.
Also never detonates, anywhere throughout the range.
Should I be retarding to 10 degees after 11500?
Do I need an 'expert' to tune it for me, perhaps? ��
Its only running BP98.
Because I cant get Gull E10 any more.
No rocket fuel.
Toridal head. About 0.5mm squish.

[Wos]

This is just a semi educated estimate, its' never been on a dyno yet.
Also never detonates, anywhere throughout the range.
Should I be retarding to 10 degees after 11500?
Do I need an 'expert' to tune it for me, perhaps? ��
Its only running BP98.
Because I cant get Gull E10 any more.
No rocket fuel.
Toridal head. About 0.5mm squish.

Not easy to help you flettner, cause so many factors are involved. With a dyno graph would bei easier

Do you have rev counter?

Where do you feel resonance begin?
Peak?
Your max rpm ever had?

If you give me data, i will do a sketch on hpi sofware.
Much easier to understand then talking endlessly ��

Your use is enduro...you need driveability in low rpm?

Then it could be better not to have 30 degree at low 2000 rpm or 3000...its a question if you sometimes need this rpms

Som engines feel well with 30 degree close under resonance others give you Signals like roughness, slight Vibrations...some only like 26 there...
Good thing is, some riders can feel this unhealthy behavior ��

If you have to much advance after reso begin, there are Vibrations too and it wont rev fast and smooth

Steps of varying only 1 degree can often be recogniced by your ass ��...as we in germany say

Have a good one to all

Grüße Wolfgang

[Condyn]

I have been blindly using 30 degrees until 6800 rpm ( 9100 peak at 15 degrees ) all season. This is my first season on this build so we did not have time to fiddle with the curve much. The above comment by wobbly has me thinking about pulling some timing. Because we are cvt we stage at 6500 rpm and immediately shoot to 9100 in the first 5 feet as noted before. At the last event I staged at 7,000 rpm instead and as I am now reviewing the ignitech curve, this just so happens to be right at 27 degrees. We had improved 60 foot times at that event and better back half as well. The com is a whopping 18:1 and we run c25. This is 700cc. Somehow it does not detonate ever. Anyway, just dropping in to share, No questions today. I think I will spend some time playing with the initial advance on the dyno some more and In the field. The pipes have a massive volume so I am certain retarding the ignition during staging is going to help the launch. Maybe less compression could benefit as well. I have confirmed 15 degrees at peak is best with this combo on the dyno. Any thoughts are welcome.

[Flettner]

Not easy to help you flettner, cause so many factors are involved. With a dyno graph would bei easier

Do you have rev counter?

Where do you feel resonance begin?
Peak?
Your max rpm ever had?

If you give me data, i will do a sketch on hpi sofware.
Much easier to understand then talking endlessly ��

Your use is enduro...you need driveability in low rpm?

Then it could be better not to have 30 degree at low 2000 rpm or 3000...its a question if you sometimes need this rpms

Som engines feel well with 30 degree close under resonance others give you Signals like roughness, slight Vibrations...some only like 26 there...
Good thing is, some riders can feel this unhealthy behavior ��

If you have to much advance after reso begin, there are Vibrations too and it wont rev fast and smooth

Steps of varying only 1 degree can often be recogniced by your ass ��...as we in germany say

Have a good one to all

Grüße Wolfgang

Resonance starts at 7500, I used to have the advance still at 30 degrees there but my little freind detonation could be felt so now I start decreasing at 6500, det gone away.
To be fair Ive not put a timing light on it so the advance numbers may be not be entirely accurate. Must do that I guess at some point.
The engine is in bits at the moment getting fitted out with the new welded cylinder as seen above.
Next two meeting will have to be back with the air cooled cylinder. Perhaps even see a dyno before the water cooled cylinder is fitted permanent.
Exhaust 195, transfer 130, or as close as I can measure.
Bore and stroke an unfortunate 48 x 58.

[katinas]

Does anyone have the measurement from the disc to the piston face for the Aprilia RSA?

Thanks

Not accurately, approx 32-34mm.

[Wos]

Resonance starts at 7500, I used to have the advance still at 30 degrees there but my little freind detonation could be felt so now I start decreasing at 6500, det gone away.
To be fair Ive not put a timing light on it so the advance numbers may be not be entirely accurate. Must do that I guess at some point.
The engine is in bits at the moment getting fitted out with the new welded cylinder as seen above.
Next two meeting will have to be back with the air cooled cylinder. Perhaps even see a dyno before the water cooled cylinder is fitted permanent.
Exhaust 195, transfer 130, or as close as I can measure.
Bore and stroke an unfortunate 48 x 58.

Detos are not my friends my fellow flettner ��

And i miss max rpm you ever reached... inklusive overrev...if you dont know guessing could help for a first shot ��



Two things in relation to ignition timing can lead to detos...

To much advance in general
And how far you go with to much advance into powerband ...besides powerband risk is less ��

So.. let me think some time to cerate a more save timing curve for you

Wolfgang