ESE's works engine tuner

[Noxin]

Can you please upload one of your files somewhere where we can take a look at it?
I'm working on my own dyno software right now, so maybe I can fix something.

[lohring]

There are several dyno data loggers with software that can record data from a water brake. I'm familiar with Performance Trends on an inertial dyno, but Your Dyno has a water brake system as well.

Lohring Miller

[Storbeck]

Can you please upload one of your files somewhere where we can take a look at it?
I'm working on my own dyno software right now, so maybe I can fix something.

I'll see if I can figure out how to do that but I don't think the data will be much interest to you, it's just time, rpm, load cell voltage and a couple of temps from a very old fashioned old snowmobile engine. Logged at 1000Hz for a few minutes.

Lohring thank you for your suggestions I'm familiar with both of those and I'm really not in need (nor have the budget for) dyno hardware or "dyno software" right now.

I just need a convenient way to look at graphs of large files.

I'm pretty sure python would do it but then I have to learn python, which I wouldn't mind doing but that's a project in it's own and I just want an easy way to look at graphs that I can move around and zoom in and out without having to go through a bunch of dialog boxes and wait for laggy software to catch up as I am currently doing with excel.

[wobbly]

Python is a well used industry standard so I would go onto a nerd site somewhere and ask if someone with knowledge would look at your file and do whats needed.
The other thing is there are also plenty of people who can get into the back end of Excel and help with the clunk.

[Flettner]

So how much exhaust port area is needed below the transfers opening? Some, none or lots?

[F5 Dave]

Well none is needed as long as you had ample to fully evacuate the cylinder before that point so pressure doesn't use the transfers as temporary exhaust ports.
Usually unobtanium.

Think that was point of FOS cylinder.

How did that actually go btw?

[Noxin]

I just need a convenient way to look at graphs of large files.

Just send a sample file to me. I need something to wrap my head around while waiting for Santa..

[Wos]

So how much exhaust port area is needed below the transfers opening? Some, none or lots?

This is the story frits and jan did at the last days of 2 stroke gp by lifting exhaust downside...

They lifted it only a little and it worked well.

Alex degnes ( 2t stuffing) and others lifted much more, and this caused overheating problems.

So it seems not only a question of getting rid pressure before transfer opening??

Think low Performance engine needs less area than a high Performance one!?

Experts 😉 your newest findings? Conclusions? Thaughts?? 😉

Thanks!

Wolfgang

[ApolloMotoMoto]

Alex degnes ( 2t stuffing) and others lifted much more, and this caused overheating problems.

See the above comment about the excess pressure at transfer port open using the transfer ducts as "temporary exhaust ports".

If you lift the bottom of the exhaust port (port floor) too high with insufficient blowdown STA, then you will be using the transfer ducts as temporary exhaust ports through a large portion of the rev range.

It does not surprise me at all that sending hot exhaust gases down the transfer ducts makes the engine hotter than it would be if you were not doing that.

[wobbly]

Flett , It all revolves around what you are trying to achieve , and the other side of the coin is the experience of others , in reality. so far.
Taking the dyno proven fact that Jan lifted the RSA port floor 3mm and it " worked " , I did the same on a test KZ cylinder.
Jan has stated that this mod would only work if the Blowdown was fully optimized, and in the TM this is close to reality , but not quite as no pin plugs are employed.
So , I dynoed it and it gained close to 1Hp in 50.
Is this even remotely relevant in your twin pipe test cylinder - I think not , due to its application.

Alex does so many other idiotic things , all at the same time, so anything gained from that source is suspect at best - as he has never even come close to replicating , let alone besting
perfectly normal 50cc race engines used in FreeTech on petrol.
BRC , did the full , up to the top of the transfers deal , and in that low power application it " worked".
But subsequently several top tuners have attempted to take their engine and " tune " it for a high power , wide range , mini sprint car application
and failed miserably.
This is also not helped by the tiny case they employed , but when simming the thing ,using a proven 1.3 case and a " normal " BDC port it made huge power with nothing unusual needed.

So - dont be like Alex and go off on unnecessary , unproven tangents - get completely lost , and have to circle back to reality at a later date.
Build really well , something boringly normal first.
You are far enough off the planet as it is with the twin port concept - get that proven as an advantage first - enough of a win to start with in anyone's book.

[Flettner]

Flett , I all revolves around what you are trying to achieve , and the other side of the coin is the experience of others , in reality. so far.
Taking the dyno proven fact that Jan lifted the RSA port floor 3mm and it " worked " , I did the same on a test KZ cylinder.
Jan has stated that this mod would only work if the Blowdown was fully optimized, and in the TM this is close to reality , but not quite as no pin plugs are employed.
So , I dynoed it and it gained close to 1Hp in 50.
Is this even remotely relevant in your twin pipe test cylinder - I think not , due to its application.

Alex does so many other idiotic things , all at the same time, so anything gained from that source is suspect at best - as he has never even come close to replicating , let alone besting
perfectly normal 50cc race engines used in FreeTech on petrol.
BRC , did the full , up to the top of the transfers deal , and in that low power application it " worked".
But subsequently several top tuners have attempted to take their engine and " tune " it for a high power , wide range , mini sprint car application
and failed miserably.
This is also not helped by the tiny case they employed , but when simming the thing ,using a proven 1.3 case and a " normal " BDC port it made huge power with nothing unusual needed.

So - dont be like Alex and go off on unnecessary , unproven tangents - get completely lost , and have to circle back to reality at a later date.
Build really well , something boringly normal first.
You are far enough off the planet as it is with the twin port concept - get that proven as an advantage first - enough of a win to start with in anyone's book.

I'm not into "normal" "boring" , you know that Wobbly. This twin port engine was supposed to be heading up to Robs for a dyno run just to see where we are at as of now but the last outing on the AG has broken my ankle, full cast from knee to toes. This situation has put a spanner in the works and now I'm relying on others to help me, Ill have to fit in with them, hopefully some time over Christmas new year. I guess the good thing is the bikes still running fine and apart from bent handlebars is ready to race. The water cooled, twin powervalve cylinder is away being Nikasiled now, as soon as its back Im going to fit it up, water pump, radiator, servo valve control but in such a way as to be able to go back to air cooled cylinder if needed. these cylinders are all still the 48 x 58 stroke and bore, new 54 x 54 cylinder is under construction, hence the questions on exhaust area below transfers. unfortunately I work on semi educated guess work, perhaps I will measure the exhaust blowdown area and send you that for you to calculate properly. I intend to fit this new cylinder up to a Sliding Gib disc valve bottom end, crank case water cooled ..... a semi serious attempt, for me.
I guess ultimately I should build up a three port (normal) cylinder as comparison, if I can be bothered.

[wobbly]

All im saying Neil is that you are already " guessing" with the transfer ports , and you have an unproven twin port setup , now you are talking of heading off down another tangent of the Exhaust floor.
If the thing does not come up to expectations - let alone exceed them , where do you look , are the transfers wrong , is the twin Exhaust an issue , is the Exhaust floor causing a problem.

At the moment you are already tearing out your hair with a mid range tuning problem.
Its thus way , way too hard to diagnose and try to correct anything, even with all these elements in isolation , let alone several on top of one another.
No criticism of you at all, I just believe you could be making yourself twice the amount of work needed, unnecessarily.

[Flettner]

All im saying Neil is that you are already " guessing" with the transfer ports , and you have an unproven twin port setup , now you are talking of heading off down another tangent of the Exhaust floor.
If the thing does not come up to expectations - let alone exceed them , where do you look , are the transfers wrong , is the twin Exhaust an issue , is the Exhaust floor causing a problem.

At the moment you are already tearing out your hair with a mid range tuning problem.
Its thus way , way too hard to diagnose and try to correct anything, even with all these elements in isolation , let alone several on top of one another.
No criticism of you at all, I just believe you could be making yourself twice the amount of work needed, unnecessarily.

Ok, what should I do then? Ive got to make some sort of decision on this exhaust system. The more educated the better, I guess educated assumptions.��

[wobbly]

No - assumptions - they are just errors waiting to be revealed.
I already told you , if you treat each Exhaust port as a single ( to BDC ), then make the exit of each, 90% of that ports chordal area x Cosine of the roof down angle.
No guessing , no assumptions , proven methodology.

[Wos]

Often in a Diskussion between diffrent levels its is a problem, what somebody is reaching for, was not clearly difined ?

Goal should be... come together dear friends !? 😉

Grüße Wolfgang