ESE's works engine tuner

[Flettner]

Ill have to get someone to install it for me and show me how to run it... I guess, thankyou.
In the mean time an inertia dyno would be very useful, I learnt a lot in a very short time at Robs ESE dyno on new years day, invaluable.
For now I just wait for the water cooled cylinder to get back from NZ Cylinders, still a 58 x 48 bore and stroke. The max safe stroke I can have with the AG crankcase, unfortunately.
I'm drawing up new cases to get the 54 stroke required for the cylinder on my pattern bench, also will have disc valve / sliding Gibb and a six speed close ratio gearbox. At the moment the AG only 4 speed, usable.

[ApolloMotoMoto]

Ill have to get someone to install it for me and show me how to run it...

Here is a question:


Do you have Microsoft Excel installed on your computer?

I think most people just kind of assume every computer in the world has the full Microsoft Office Suite....

If you dont have Excel installed on the computer that would make your resulting "blank page" make a lot more sense.

[Flettner]

Here is a question:


Do you have Microsoft Excel installed on your computer?

I think most people just kind of assume every computer in the world has the full Microsoft Office Suite....

If you dont have Excel installed on the computer that would make your resulting "blank page" make a lot more sense.

I'm on my computer now, behold, we have some action, I can see the page, thankyou. Ill have a bit of a play with the inputs and see what happens. Too easy.

Ill be back with questions (many) I'm sure. I appreciate you perseverance.

for example, what's old and new about?

[JanBros]

Flett, if you take about 10mins to read the doc, almost everything should be clear.

Everything "old" is where you enter all the data "as your engine is right now". after you have done that, you never change anything in "old" afterwards. All changes are done on the "new" pages.
On new you can start from scratch making new port's (to do this, delete everything in the green cell's on new) , or copy alle the green cell's (on all pages) from "old" to "new" and make changes. on some pages, there are lighter and darker green cell's, it is all explained in the doc.

for the macro's to work (macro's are some sort of code to perfrom an action like behind the purple push buttons autoadjustgraph, your exell-file needs to be saved first in a trusted environment (think it's called like that in english), you'll find it somewhere under
file -> options -> trust environment -> settings for trust ... -> trusted locations , and there you can create a new trusted location, or find out where the standard one is and store it in there

edit : you could also forget all the "new" and make the changes in old if for example you only want to change the size and timing of the port's, but than you lose your refference as to how it was and what changes you've made. before making changes, save it under another name so you can always go back to the original

[ApolloMotoMoto]

Flett, if you take about 10mins to read the doc, almost everything should be clear.

Thanks for jumping in JanBros!

I will 100% commit to help Flett work through any stumbling blocks he finds himself in beyond the instructions

There are few little things that can throw you through a loop until you understand how the spreadsheet it doing things.

Its crazy how much it can actually do given the limitations, and once you understand how it flows, I find it incredibly intuitive.

[136kg136ps]

https://www.libreoffice.org/

https://www.openoffice.org/product/calc.html

Two alternatives to Excel that are free and have several other programs that may come in handy.
I haven't tried browser borne or web based AI for anything complex yet but that is a possibility. A certainty in the near futrure.

[jonny quest]

Wobbly, it is kind of a d*ck move condemning Flettners journey.

What your failing to realize is there is always good from failure and success.

Flettner has a project he wanted to accomplish, he has the genius to carry it out. Kudos to that.

Even if it will never be a world class GP engine... it has my interest along with many others.

Not everything can be accomplished with a sim either, a sims output is derived from known good data, and bad.

If we all followed the same template, nothing new would be discovered.

[Flettner]

Wobbly and I are well acquainted, Ive build many things for him in the past, yes he can be a prickly old bugger, but so can I.
I guess I should not have 'bitten', but I did. Ill keep my pricklyness to myself, I most certainly dont want to cause any issues here .... I very much appreciate this forum and all those posting. Unlike other forums this one seems to be for the serious tuners / tinkerers, not 'how does my sparkplug look' or 'rate my piston wash' gang
Lets keep things convivial yet to the point at this 'dinner table'.

[wobbly]

The whole point of my initial post , and the subsequent explanation of why I said what I did , was simple.
I have seen it over and over again, clever people " trying new stuff " when what they are starting out with is already flawed and needs that ,or several issues, to be fixed before even thinking of
going off on another tangent.
All this process does is waste a heap of valuable R&D time.

Neil has a huge torque hole in the lower powerband , that issue needs to be addressed BEFORE even suggesting shortening the pipes , that will only make things worse down there.
Not solving anything , but more likely , making it even harder to trouble shoot the real problem.
If we were over dinner , I would say exactly that, and accuse him of several forms of self abuse while I was at it.
I was helping by pointing out the reality of the situation ie being truthful, to not do so in my opinion is way worse than saying nothing.

Thousands of people have been using things like EngMod or JanBros excel to produce optimized engine parameters for decades now, thru all this Neil has been very , very cleverly actually making
things - but its well past time to stop guessing.
Why , because its now really easy for him to do it properly.

[F5 Dave]

I think I'll just pop in to explain to overseas members how the kiwi bloke interaction can be what appears brutal towards people we know and like.

Some of that banter was more obvious when there were more racers on the other threads trading insults like rubbed paint on the track. But none of it is serious, quite the opposite.

Problem is, that backstory of who knows who and facial expressions is lost on the Internet.

Short story, it's all good mate.

[Flettner]

The whole point of my initial post , and the subsequent explanation of why I said what I did , was simple.
I have seen it over and over again, clever people " trying new stuff " when what they are starting out with is already flawed and needs that ,or several issues, to be fixed before even thinking of
going off on another tangent.
All this process does is waste a heap of valuable R&D time.

Neil has a huge torque hole in the lower powerband , that issue needs to be addressed BEFORE even suggesting shortening the pipes , that will only make things worse down there.
Not solving anything , but more likely , making it even harder to trouble shoot the real problem.
If we were over dinner , I would say exactly that, and accuse him of several forms of self abuse while I was at it.
I was helping by pointing out the reality of the situation ie being truthful, to not do so in my opinion is way worse than saying nothing.

Thousands of people have been using things like EngMod or JanBros excel to produce optimized engine parameters for decades now, thru all this Neil has been very , very cleverly actually making
things - but its well past time to stop guessing.
Why , because its now really easy for him to do it properly.

Ok, that said, point me in the right direction, thankyou. What would you change if you were forced to do this project, being that there are some ''obvious'' shortcomings.... but you are not allowed to go back to a single pipe or three port configuration.
Also understand this configuration was always destined to run with a powervalve. This first version was just a lets ''see what happens'' with twin pipes, after all some said it would hardly run with two separate pipes. (Luc).
Furthermore originally I was just keen to see if I could actually cast an air cooled cylinder having never cast one before, thought it might be nice to combine and cast twin port as well as I wanted one to experiment with. Remember this one is largely just a copy of Jawa back in the day. Things will get more interesting IMO when this next cylinder is operational, first water cooled (one of the big problems with original TP Jawa, heat soak) and powervalves, also I believe a necessity for successful TP. Although this cylinder is still a rubbish at 58 x 48, the real attempt 54 x 54 is just wood and bondifil at the moment. 54 x 54 will be running the Sliding Gibb disc valve (something that was also rubbished when I first started working with the concept) and ultimately cast to accept Quad TPI at a later date. I might remind you KTM have dined out on my (and Wayne Blackwood ) original TPI for years.
I was also told that was a waste of time when we were developing it.

Besides, what is a ''waste of time''? I've had two successful and fun Vinduro seasons on the AG with this cylinder, astoundingly reliable for something I've built, although I'm not a skilled enough rider to win the series the AG will take on all contenders in the open stuff, no contest.

A note on the ''hunting'' issue, only seems to happen when hot and also doesn't happen if the throttle is just held open, both conditions will disappear with the new PV cylinder I believe.

[wobbly]

Absolutely first thing to do is an STA analysis of the Blowdown Vs the Transfers.
This will highlight immediately any shortcomings in that area of design.
Second thing is if " it goes away when cold " has got to mean that there is a mismatch between the needle/tube annulus and the main jet.
Its seen especially well on the dyno, low rpm/WOT fueling is set by the needle tip/emulsion tube annulus area.
And if this is too rich ie the needle tip is too small , then as you wind in the throttle toward WOT , it will be getting richer and richer.
Not so evident when cold, as a rich mixture is OK in that circumstance.
Then further up the rpm scale as the main takes over mixture control it may in fact be perfectly OK - as is evidenced by the dyno curve.

All I am saying is get this shit sorted first , before heading of into left field and shortening the pipes.

And with reference to your mates at KTM - looks like what goes around comes around , they are on the verge of bankruptcy , and cant afford to pay Danny Pedrosa
his E 600K let alone give you anything concrete in return.

[Flettner]

Probably as evidenced by the clip needing to be on the top groove already, fucking carburetors, trying to find carburetor stuff these days can be difficult. I used to deal with Sudco but they are no more I hear. Google I guess, somewhere there used to be a Mikuni needle chart.... found it, best find out what I've got first.

[ApolloMotoMoto]

...trying to find carburetor stuff these days can be difficult. I used to deal with Sudco but they are no more I hear.

Jets-R-Us has been my go-to for a while.

[F5 Dave]

Do the rules allow you to jetison the Mikuni? A PWK28mm is a fine dirt carb as on KX85 etc and will be easier to jet / have better throttle response. Can easily handle 35hp on an RZ350. I avoid the Chinese copies.