ESE's works engine tuner

[Niels Abildgaard]

Is that made of wood? ECO.

Scrapped teak furniture.
Lubricated for life

[husaberg]

thanks for the replies I will do them with a taper fit that was talked about early in the thread,has anyone here done that and what taper angle was used

I think Jan Thiel mentioned a taper or a press fit on the Jamathi but in Steel?
I will see if I can find it.


turns out I can

In 1974 I made a conical sleeve, Morse cone. It was very easy to fit and remove, worked great!!!
No welding needed, just a light press fit. I pressed it in about 2mm.
I got the sleeve material from MAHLE, so I was sure it could be plated... MAHLE 138
Once I had to make a cylinder in a hurry, no time to get it plated.
So I bought a plated Kreidler cylinder, and made a conical sleeve out of it...
It gave good power, and won a lot of races!!
First I made it without aux ports: insufficient power....
As it was easily removable I took it out and added aux ports: +2.5 HP...
Less than 1 hours work, my client was very happy, and won a Dutch NMB championship with it.

Actually reading it I am not sure what the material is but suspect it was aluminium ... but I know that Frits has it in his cabinet. so is it Aluminium??

[Jan Van Hamme]

I think Jan Thiel mentioned a taper or a press fit on the Jamathi but in Steel?
I will see if I can find it.


turns out I can


Actually reading it I am not sure what the material is but suspect it was aluminium ... but I know that Frits has it in his cabinet. so is it Aluminium??

It is because of that specific message from Jan Thiel on this forum that I also want to do it that way.
Mahle138 is AlSi18CuMgNi
I can't find it to buy.

[Frits Overmars]

I think Jan Thiel mentioned a taper or a press fit on the Jamathi but in Steel?
Actually reading it I am not sure what the material is but suspect it was aluminium ... but I know that Frits has it in his cabinet. so is it Aluminium??

Yup. Aluminium hard-chromed conical sleeve in aluminium cylinder casting.

[husaberg]

It is because of that specific message from Jan Thiel on this forum that I also want to do it that way.
Mahle138 is AlSi18CuMgNi
I can't find it to buy.

A390 looks pretty close?
https://www.matweb.com/search/datash...213c6ca968f72c
Although it seems to heaps more copper?
4032 is close but lower Si
and available in barstock Je use it for some pistons.
https://auto.jepistons.com/je-auto-b...l-differences/

Yup. Aluminium hard-chromed conical sleeve in aluminium cylinder casting.

cheers

[lohring]

The gear train. The idea for an RC boat was to drive a propeller from each crankshaft. Opposite rotation propellers eliminate torque problems.

Lohring Miller

[Niels Abildgaard]

The gear train. The idea for an RC boat was to drive a propeller from each crankshaft. Opposite rotation propellers eliminate torque problems.

Lohring Miller

This can be tried with two standard engines united by a new common cylinderhead

https://i.imgur.com/hzIW9WL.jpg

[jamathi]

thanks for the replies I will do them with a taper fit that was talked about early in the thread,has anyone here done that and what taper angle was used

Mahle 138 aluminium was used.
And a MORSE cone
Worked great!!!

[jamathi]

A390 looks pretty close?
https://www.matweb.com/search/datash...213c6ca968f72c
Although it seems to heaps more copper?
4032 is close but lower Si
and available in barstock Je use it for some pistons.
https://auto.jepistons.com/je-auto-b...l-differences/




cheers

I just ordered a bar of Mahle 138, no problem, in 1973

[Jan Van Hamme]

deleted my double post

[Jan Van Hamme]

I just ordered a bar of Mahle 138, no problem, in 1973

When I read your post about the morse cone sleeve at the time, I thought and think it was a brilliant idea.
So looking for Mahle 138. Not found so far.
Then look for other types of aluminium.
Somewhere I once read from Lozza Stolks that aluminium 4032-T6 is a good material for making a sleeve and having it nicasil plated.
Looking for 4032-T6. Not found so far.

My Yamaha RD125LC has a factory cast iron bushing in the aluminium.
So I tought I would make a morse cone into the cast iron cylinder and place a cast iron bushing in it.
Axially it will hardly pressed in there, of course just as firmly.

Unless someone has a bar or tube Mahle138 or 4032-T651 or -T6 available in Belgium or the surrounding area, I am thinking of taking the GG30 route.

Is dat verstandig of blijf ik daar beter van weg?

If I drill a conventional sleeve to a larger bore after wear, I have to rebalance the cranckshaft every time because of an larger piston.
To prevent that,I could have the cast iron bushing nicasilized.
However, cast iron on cast iron has good emergency running properties.
Hence the idea to use a replaceable cast iron morse cone bushing that can accommodate the original piston diameter every time.

[husaberg]

When I read your post about the morse cone sleeve at the time, I thought and think it was a brilliant idea.
So looking for Mahle 138. Not found so far.
Then look for other types of aluminium.
Somewhere I once read from Lozza Stolks that aluminium 4032-T6 is a good material for making a sleeve and having it nicasil plated.
Looking for 4032-T6. Not found so far.

My Yamaha RD125LC has a factory cast iron bushing in the aluminium.
So I tought I would make a morse cone into the cast iron cylinder and place a cast iron bushing in it.
Axially it will hardly pressed in there, of course just as firmly.

Unless someone has a bar or tube Mahle138 or 4032-T651 or -T6 available in Belgium or the surrounding area, I am thinking of taking the GG30 route.

Is dat verstandig of blijf ik daar beter van weg?

If I drill a conventional sleeve to a larger bore after wear, I have to rebalance the crankshaft every time because of an larger piston.
To prevent that,I could have the cast iron bushing nicasilized.
However, cast iron on cast iron has good emergency running properties.
Hence the idea to use a replaceable cast iron morse cone bushing that can accommodate the original piston diameter every time.

As far as i know 4032 is freely available? at least here anyway dont worry about the temper you can do that yourself.

As far as I know most people making pistons will be using 4032 at least 25% of the time.

In France if it helps it will be called A-S12UGN.

its def in Europe

https://www.leichtmetall.eu/en/products/en-aw-4032

[TZ350]

.
Promised a friend I would gather up all my Suzuki RG50 rotary valve conversion posts into one place.

Yes. It is also where the ignition trigger gets installed.

Attachment 355037 Attachment 355040 Attachment 355038 Attachment 355041 Attachment 355039

This is how I went about it.
I used all the rotary valve parts from a Suzuki GP125 and flywheel.
1) Salvage the crankshaft hub from an old flywheel.
2) Cut the thread off the end of the crankshaft.
3) Drill and tap the crankshaft for a M5 screw.
4) Machine the hub and crank flush. Then machine 0.005" five thou off the end of the crank to give some crush on the hub. You only just want it gently squeezed, just enough to hold it securely but easy to get off again.
5) Make a spacer with about 0.010" ten thou clearance between the hub and the rotary valve driving dog.
6) Insert a 2-3mm thick "O" ring in the face of the spacer to give it some crush on the RV driving dog.
7) The hub is keyed to the crankshaft. Screw a M3 dome head into the hub for the ignition trigger at the appropriate timing position.
8) Crush the dome head in a vice to collapse the Philips star. You need to do this so you don't get two ignition pulses close together. One from each side of the Philips dome head screw.
9) At TDC drill a 5mm hole in the crank shaft for the RV driving dog's driving pin. 5mm fitted the key way in my Suzuki RV driving dog. I cut an old drill bit down to use for the pin.
10) Used a short piece of hose and two hose clips to secure the carburetor to the inlet stub. I put a larger "O" ring inside the hose to prevent metal to metal vibration contact between the carb and stub.

RG50 cylinder with the original inlet tract sealed up with Kneed-It putty. Also for the RV, the left side case was filled up with Kneed-It too before milling it flat for the rotary valve and cover.

Attachment 355034 Attachment 355035

.

I have been playing with my rotary valve converted Suzuki RG50's inlet timing. Rotary valve timing was changed and ignition and jetting optimised for each run. Everything else the same.

Attachment 355021 Attachment 355022 Attachment 355023

Red line inlet timing, opens 135 btdc closes 75 atdc. Blue line inlet timing, opens 145 btdc closes 85 atdc. So more is not always better.

My previous limited experience with a two stroke and Nitro on the dyno. Is that, it was good for additional low down torque and for filling in the hole just before getting up on the pipe. Once the engine started coming anywhere near maximum torque it was best to stop adding nitro. It sure looked like it would give the bike some extra lift coming out of corners. A real power band widener. It would be interesting to adjust the engines compression/ignition properly for Nitro. Maybe I will try it one day.

Yes, pay to check.



Our preference is a 12V charging stator/rotor, 12V rectifier/regulator and capacitor (no battery) for a push and go system.

Attachment 354768

Total loss, the 5 Amp hour battery lasts me the whole day.

Some times a charging system is not possible or practicable so we run total loss. As an experiment I connected the 18Volt 5 amp hour Ryobi battery to the car heater electric water pump that we use on our bikes. It pumped water for two hours before I got bored and went to lunch. With the 18V battery I had to use a 24V temperature gauge. The gauge switches the pump on/off and is very good at keeping the coolant temperature at its pre set target value of 45 deg C. 40 made the most power but 50 carburetted much better. So 45-48 it is. With these cheep Chinese switchable temperature gauges we found we can keep the coolant temperature in a very tight range.

.
Attachment 354311 Attachment 354310 Attachment 354312 Attachment 354313

Stroked crank, pin hole welded and re machined for 45mm stroke (thanks Flettner).

This is to go with a big bore kit to make an F4 95cc, Suzuki RG50 engine with a rotary valve conversion.

To get close to 50% ballance factor I needed to make the counter weight heavier.

Managed that by removing a small amount of material on the crank pin side.

It is always a worry drilling holes here as it may loosen the crank pin. Anyway I kept them as shallow as possible and crossed my fingers for luck.

The insert is my best interpretation of a venturi. The lead convergent cone is aerofoil shaped. The constriction is 24mm and the tail is an energy recovering divergent cone. Like the X section of an aero wing.

The insert is glued and pressed in. It can't be removed from the carb body without wrecking the carb.

The insert is about 40mm long and the inlet tract to the rotary valve is about 68mm. The carb was enlarged in the area of the main jet to reduce the disruption to the airflow by the slide, Jet nozzle and needle.

The part of the bell mouth that was there for the air filter rubber boot, was cut off.

Attachment 354097Attachment 354098Attachment 354099

This class legal 24mm OKO that has been modified, gives 94% of the flow of a genuine standard 28mm Keihin.

It is probably time to do away with the 24mm carb rule. No other F4 bike has that restriction.

Attachment 350996

More adventures with the Suzuki RG50

Attachment 350995

Green line was the original piston port cylinder. Red line after it was converted to rotary valve and the Blue line is RV with a smaller 24mm carb.

The smaller carb Blue line has a strange dip in it. Not sure what that means but it looks like something that has become more pronounced as we have progressed.

The take away looks to be that the smaller carb and inlet tract better suit the rotary valve timing.

.
Attachment 350938

Ok. Got the rotary valve Suzuki RG50 running tonight.

Blue line is the original piston port/reed setup. Red line is the exact same cylinder on the rotary valve bottom end, no other changes to ignition or jetting at this point.

I only managed one run before the ignition trigger fell off. Sort that tomorrow night.

Attachment 350939

The RV seems to rev way past the old piston port setup. Looks like the RV setup needs different jetting and maybe timing compared to the old piston port/reed engine.

Looking forward to doing some tuning tomorrow night. Very excited now that it actually runs.

.

Attachment 350881

Ok I need some help. I am hoping for some ball park general advice from the Free Tec 50 guys. What sort of rotary valve timing do they use. 24mm carb, 14,000 peak rpm. Thanks....

Attachment 350860

Completed my Suzuki RG50 with what was originally a piston port/case reed inlet with its now new rotary valve conversion.

Next move is to put it all together with the cylinder from my current RG50 engine so that I can compare before and after conversion dyno runs.

.
Attachment 350808

Outer rotary valve cover and ignition trigger.

.

I am pretty lazy and did not want to dick around with dial gauges to center the rotary table and setup the case on center. So I tapered a length of 1" bright and used the taper to force the job on center.

Attachment 350789 Centering the Rotary Table with the tapered round bar.

Attachment 350787 Centering the crankcase half.

Attachment 350790 Starting to cut the pocket. Depth and inner and outer diameters are critical.

Attachment 350788 Finished the first half. Depths and diameters worked out perfectly. Now to get the cover sorted.

Suzuki RG50 with a GP125 rotary valve assembly. Maybe it will end up a 50 or I could make a 69cc engine and Turbo Charge it. Such exciting possibilities.

.
Team ESE exploring the possibility of fitting a Suzuki GP125 rotary valve assembly to a Suzuki RG50.

Also in the works is a small turbocharger with a much lighter bespoke 6061 aluminum exhaust turbine housing for turbocharging a 70cc two stroke. Aluminum should be Ok for the turbine housing as the exhaust gas is much cooler on a two stroke than a four stroke. We also want to make bespoke turbine housings so we can get the A/R ratio more suited to the capacity of the engine.

A rotary valve converted RG50 with an over bored turbocharged 70cc water cooled cylinder. With the turbo we plan on a draw through carb, but I am also tempted to fuel inject it directly into the turbo intake or maybe just after the turbo on the discharge side.

Attachment 350769

[lohring]

This is the way my partner joined two standard engines. He built it as an inline twin, but it could be built as a horizontally opposed twin with either alternate or simultaneous firing.

Lohring Miller

[Jan Van Hamme]

As far as i know 4032 is freely available? at least here anyway dont worry about the temper you can do that yourself.

As far as I know most people making pistons will be using 4032 at least 25% of the time.

In France if it helps it will be called A-S12UGN.

its def in Europe

https://www.leichtmetall.eu/en/products/en-aw-4032

Thank you very much.
I will contact them and hope they want to sell to a non-professional customer.