ESE's works engine tuner

[pete376403]

This reminds me of something Honda found with ultra high rpm not needing decent octane at stratospheric revs this was in the days pre CDi and wide valve angles little squish horrible Piston domes that screamed I need really high octane. I cant remember where I read it but it was from I think Shoichiro Irimajiri.

I recall reading something similar from Kevin Cameron, they couldn't run high octane fuel in the super high revving engines because it didn't burn quickly enough. He said the high octane fuel would normally be used to suppress detonation by not "exploding" but rather a slower, controlled burn, but in the case of the Hondas, there just wasn't enough time for that to happen. Ahhh beat me to it!

[Wos]

Thats what my wife said.
I first got an inkling into this years ago when first tuning a 3YL Yamaha 250. It had been moded to hell with new pipes and everything we understood about go fast shit
at the time. It would misfire like hell at peak torque , and as I didnt know about the trick fine wire NGK sparkplugs , my initial reaction was to drop the spark gap from 0.65mm to 0.35mm.
That cured the misfire , and then later on the dyno we discovered the absolutely weird relationship between the spark gap and the overev capability.
Finally settled on 0.45mm as this was just short of misfiring, but gave the best compromise in the overev.
Recently everything is completely different on a very similar engine , using the Ignitech @ 15.4V and the shorty fine wire plugs we run 1mm , and can manipulate the overev at will with
the ignition curve.
Im now seriously looking into setting up a rpm controlled regulator, that can reduce the voltage seen by the ECU and thus the mJoules generated at the plug.

Thank you very much wobb for flood of Information...top!!! 😉

My life seems to be to short getting all the possible variations into ball park

[katinas]

Edit - Condyn , one of the very few reasons an Ignitech will not produce accurate ignition curves , is EMI. You MUST use resistor plugs and caps. The other issue is the proximity of the trigger or any other input/output
wiring to the coil charge wires.
They are on opposite ends of the loom plug for a reason.
I always run the coil wires on one side of the bike ( or whatever ) frame, and the triggers etc on the other side.
These simple things remove 99% of issues.
Also depin any unused loom wires, DONT coil them up to operate as very good antennae.

Yes absolutely critical. I made a test bench for checking the ignition systems. 1.5 kw engine with maximum 22000rpm.
With Ignitech SPARKER DCCDIP4P4 I was completely confused for two days due to interference of the second spark after 90 degrees. And yes, the reason was the wires located close to each other. No such problems with the factory units that I tested, looks like Ignitech is very sensitive unit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1-JTUKL0Uk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5GkXjsijc0

[wobbly]

Yes the P4 seems extra sensitive , I ended up using CAT 5 audio cable with the shield grounded at one end for the triggers - problems gone.
Not only is it shielded, the wires are twisted pairs, on the scope there is no noise at all.

[diesel pig]

Yes absolutely critical. I made a test bench for checking the ignition systems. 1.5 kw engine with maximum 22000rpm.
With Ignitech SPARKER DCCDIP4P4 I was completely confused for two days due to interference of the second spark after 90 degrees. And yes, the reason was the wires located close to each other. No such problems with the factory units that I tested, looks like Ignitech is very sensitive unit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1-JTUKL0Uk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5GkXjsijc0

Oh this is very interesting. Along with what Wobbly is saying about wiring layout. I see a lot of rewiring ign wiring loops layouts in my future.

[katinas]

Yes the P4 seems extra sensitive , I ended up using CAT 5 audio cable with the shield grounded at one end for the triggers - problems gone.
Not only is it shielded, the wires are twisted pairs, on the scope there is no noise at all.

Thanks for the advice.
Ignitech allows to choose "Interlock input" function: this option works only for pickup system 1 lobe, 2 pickups. With elevated levels of electromagnetic
interference (e.g. at the time of ignition) on some motorcycles (e.g. Ducati) unwanted activation of the pickup input may occur,
especially that input which at the moment is not active. This option prevents unwanted activation blocking input 2 during
activation of input 1, and vice versa: blocking input 1 during the activation of Input 2. This option, however, may cause
problems, when combined with automatic determination of sensor polarity..
After turning off function, the troubles were even greater.
20 years ago I had this problem with my homemade long duration spark ignition for V 90 2 cylinder engine. Then got out of this by using a more powerful thyristor BTW69 1200v, with less control sensitivity. Just more revs was needed to open thyristor gate.

[SwePatrick]

I´d like to give you guys some advice.
Ignitech and such in all it´s glory.

But if you are having the budget, go for Maxxecu Mini(or better)
Working a treat on twostrokes.
You get a LOT of functions, and also more hardware to use(from the car tuning world)

I take the opportunity to post new video below, i run Maxxecu Mini in my tzr build.
In this episode i test the launchcontrol function, just raw no finesse, and also no slipperclutch.
You can dial in the launchcontrol with delay and gradually roll off(to help traction)
But not tested in this video, i just wanted to start somewhere and hitting it hard.

You can set limits and compensation to almost everything.
Say you run EGT´s into the maxxecu, you can use it to active keep egt´s in check.
Say you get low battery, you can compsate charging time of the coils to compensate for that.
Well. you can do almost anything.
If beeing a mathmatical guy you can also build your own tables.
The onscreen tacho in the video is done by using canbus to obd2, then into my android device.

Enough of that
here´s the video:


Enjoy!

https://youtu.be/ZiJxtf3ZKgw




And oh...
Even though my posts might be hacked to bits, it is creating topics for the keyboardwarriors *lol*
Keeping this thread alive =)

[TZ350]

.


Air Fuel ratio as seen by an O2 sensor. In reality the AF ratio is probably close to ideal at all RPM but the O2 sensor sees the short circuiting air that was not trapped in the cylinder.

[husaberg]

.


Air Fuel ratio as seen by an O2 sensor. In reality the AF ratio is probably close to ideal at all RPM but the O2 sensor sees the short circuiting air that was not trapped in the cylinder.

https://asmedigitalcollection.asme.o...dFrom=fulltext

[fpayart]

Yes absolutely critical. I made a test bench for checking the ignition systems. 1.5 kw engine with maximum 22000rpm.
With Ignitech SPARKER DCCDIP4P4 I was completely confused for two days due to interference of the second spark after 90 degrees. And yes, the reason was the wires located close to each other. No such problems with the factory units that I tested, looks like Ignitech is very sensitive unit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1-JTUKL0Uk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5GkXjsijc0

Hello,

I also built a test bench for our ignitions, but using a vacuum cleaner motor, which is an AC motor.
The speed control isn't optimal.

I am interested in knowing the origin/supplier of your motor and controller.

Thank you in advance.

Francis.

[Niels Abildgaard]

Hello,

I also built a test bench for our ignitions, but using a vacuum cleaner motor, which is an AC motor.
The speed control isn't optimal.

I am interested in knowing the origin/supplier of your motor and controller.

Thank you in advance.

Francis.

Try this for price
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007913580606.html

[katinas]

Hello,

I also built a test bench for our ignitions, but using a vacuum cleaner motor, which is an AC motor.
The speed control isn't optimal.

I am interested in knowing the origin/supplier of your motor and controller.

Thank you in advance.

Francis.

Hi, very nice test bench, thanks for this picture.

I wanted to make it as simple and fast as possible, so I chose wooden shields.

Bought a set including the motor and control unit five years ago from ebay.
This is CNC spindle air cooling motor, diameter is 65mm 1.5 kw, shaft thickness 14mm, colet ER11,
Control unit HY01D523B 1.5 kw.
Another possible 1.5 kw engine is 80 mm in diameter and shaft thickness 19mm, colet ER16

Made this bench only this winter and didn't think it would be so helpful. I immediately identified several ignition errors that I could not understand when trying before, directly on a motorcycle.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/256177930...%2C5kw&itmmeta
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115617328...parms=amclksrc
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/405780924...%2C5kw&itmmeta
https://www.ebay.com/itm/355838255230?_trkparms

Robert.

[wobbly]

My ignition dyno I built 25 years ago - it uses an industrial vacuum cleaner motor with a simple AC lamp brightness control that
usually gets mounted on the wall with a light switch. The light switch changes the field coil polarity to reverse the rotation.
Works perfectly from about 100 rpm to 20,000 with a 2:1 cogged belt and pulleys.
I mount it on a bench next to the dyno and use the spark triggered signal to generate rpm data , and used to use a VHS video camera to plot the
angle/rpm on a large protractor on the shaft.

[fpayart]

Thank you all.

Regards,
Francis.

[diesel pig]

Yes the P4 seems extra sensitive , I ended up using CAT 5 audio cable with the shield grounded at one end for the triggers - problems gone.
Not only is it shielded, the wires are twisted pairs, on the scope there is no noise at all.

OK, I have some CAT 5 cable on the way to me. Now to made absolutely sure I have understood you properly do you mean the common ground or the sensor ground for the cable grounding? that all Ignatech's seem to have?