ESE's works engine tuner

[Storbeck]

Great info but I'm a little unclear on some things:

Jetski's give you the opportunity to really do some great things with the cooling circuits.
In the 1100cc SeaDoo world champ engines , they had water jacketed pipes. This meant I could double the
cold length of the Exhaust duct,

What length is being doubled? The "Wobbly on exhaust port design" doc says 1.5*bore for length of exhaust port, so double that? OR do you mean like double whatever i was before you modified it?

with hot water on the other side -

Hot water on the other side of what? You mean the exhaust port portion was kept very cold then the rest of the manifold/exhaust was much hotter?

this gave way less deto level from hot A/F being shoved back past the piston.
The head was a completely different circuit, with hot water taken from the pipe to reduce the temp delta between the combustion chamber wall and the expanding hot gasses.

How hot did you run the head? So you did this by blocking off coolant flow from cylinder to head and running water from the exhaust water jacket to get the head hotter than the cylinder?

On the dyno it was found that what I thought was a good cylinder exit temp, was way too cold.
We ran big clearances , but there was more power to be had with the exit temp up at 70*C due to bore friction I think, than down at 50*C to over cool the incoming transfer charge.

Super interesting. I have a couple of engines currently running around 120 degrees F (~50 C) on a heat tape stuck on the head (so I assume water temp is about that). Sounds like I should be trying to get that a little warmer, and the head even warmer yet. My thinking was cooler = better, or at least I didn't think 120F was too cool.

The cylinders with close bore centers like all the RD/LC/TZ/YPVS/Banshee's respond real well to the cold transfer tops, that in stock form had a completely random " water everywhere " approach.

So one approach might be to isolate head from cylinder, run water in the top of the cylinder water jacket from the intake side, let it flow past transfers and down around the exhaust port and into the first part of the exhaust manifold and out, so the intake side of the cylinder and top of the transfer ports is coolest. Then run hot water from the exhaust into then out of the head.

[wobbly]

JetSki's typically have super short Exhaust ducts , the big oversquare ones would be lucky if its length equals the bore.
In the case of the Seadoo I doubled the duct length as part of the pipe header, and there was a separator plate between that and the hot pipe water jacket.
The duct plus the bolt on manifold extension had cold water supplied thru the flange face as is normal in those engines.
There was no flow at all from the cylinder to the head, it had a plain copper gasket with no holes, O rings on both sides.
The head inflow was from the Exhaust jacket , yes.
Thus the cylinder exit temp was controlled by jets, as was the head exit flow , with completely separated supplies and exit jets.

The cylinder made best power at 70*C - honestly, cant remember how hot the head was - but it was well over 100 though.
But I did drill a radial series of holes just outside the bore O ring to allow the colder cylinder water to cool the alloy head insert right next to the squish band.
Those engines were very deto resistant in the config with squish band and extended duct cooling - enabling much higher com than we had previously maxed out at.
The thing was a raped ape to the first buoy.
Keeping the back of the combustion chamber hot, has no effect on deto , but helps prevent combustion energy simply being dumped into the coolant for no reason.

[koba]

If you are going to actually build a pipe at some stage I dont get why you are even considering using a design that is so obviously flawed.
The only reason it would be " insensitive " is because the engine is making bugger all power.
Post the .pack file on the site and I will help with something a bit cleverer.

It took ages.
The model is basic and probably flawed.

TF125_A.zip

[TZ350]

I have been playing with rotary valves tonight.

70cc sports cylinder on a RG50 converted to rotary valve.

Blue line Red line.

Interestingly it still idles pretty well with the radical rotary valve. I think that with a bit of jetting and ignition work the red line will be a good 25RWHP.

The next move is to turbo it. So maybe 30RWHP may be possible.

[wobbly]

TeeZee, just remember that the RSA made over 16Bar BMEP @ 13,000 ( crank ) with a valve timing of around 140/90 - and going much over 140* makes front side jetting a nightmare.
I dont understand why you and many others are running these small stroke engines at well below the accepted mechanical limits of piston speed, as Hp = T X RPM so if
you engineer the overall efficiency to hold up the torque , then going from 13,000 to say 15,000 will increase power by 15% - and you wont need " radical " anything to achieve that
level of performance.

[F5 Dave]

I was well guilty of that sin. However I started on MB50s where the ring tips would fly off if revved to 12000 (even the 100s were more tolerant.
Then onto RG50s where the cranks didn't tolerate 13000 for any time plus the rings were thick enough to lose seal above 12000.
I thought the next stage with TZR crank parts and Kx pistons at 13000 were bone reliable. So I could have pushed higher but was reluctant due to earlier (regular) mishaps.
Commuter bikes had hard limits.

[Flettner]

The water cooled, powervalve AG out and about at a local maize paddock day, blends in well. An opportunity to tune the powervalve settings, very worthwhile. I have re fitted the boost bottle, power now is much like any modern powervalve engine with smooth delivery, the 6000 to 7000 dip is gone (as I'd expect) and also the surging that used to happen .... completely gone.
No change to jetting, since the original air cooled cylinder.
My next cylinder will most certainly be twin exhaust port but 54 x54 , not this rubbish 48 x 58 I have now.
It's surprisingly good fun to ride now, cant wait for the new Vinduro / VMX season 👍

[Vannik]

It took ages.
The model is basic and probably flawed.

I unpacked the model and had a quick scan through and ran it - looks well done. Will be interesting to see what Wobbly says.

[Flettner]

The cylinder in this also has a 4mm exhaust dam, on 48 stroke.

[TZ350]

.

TeeZee, just remember that the RSA made over 16Bar BMEP @ 13,000 ( crank ) with a valve timing of around 140/90 - and going much over 140* makes front side jetting a nightmare.

This disk rotates anticlockwise.

inlet opens 170 before TDC.

Oooops a little wild 170/88.

Inlet closing, looks to be on the money at 88 after TDC.

Next move is to cut another disk.

140/90

Yep this one looks more sensible.

F8 RG500 RSW250

Some other pictures of rotary valves.

[wobbly]

The angled closing edge of that RSA picture really helps the wear issue of inlet ram pushing the valve hard against the case.
When the Rotax 256 was starting to be used in 250 Superkarts , I was on the dyno day and night at ZipKarts, and tried every valve shape and timings possible.
Full radius open/close shapes, sharp straight valve edges., corner rad's, triangle shaped inlets etc.
The dead straight opening, and sharply angled valve closing always made max power.

But with the power available initially from the ports/pipes/ignition the best setup was 135/85 , later, better pipes/ports made alot more power with 138/88.
That setup won several 250 Superkart World and Euro titles for Martin Hines.

140/90 or a little more was only ever used on the factory Aprilia, and copies made by FPE/PVP for Superkarts that easily rev'd past 14,000 all day.
The sharply angled closing edge made no difference to power with the same timing, but helped the case wear immensely.

[Vannik]

I unpacked the model and had a quick scan through and ran it - looks well done. Will be interesting to see what Wobbly says.

I found one issue - you specify 0.42mm thickness for the reed petal which is a typical glass fiber petal but specify density and Youngs modulus for steel, resulting in a very stiff petal.

[koba]

I found one issue - you specify 0.42mm thickness for the reed petal which is a typical glass fiber petal but specify density and Youngs modulus for steel, resulting in a very stiff petal.

Ahh, that oversight explains a lot; basically why the reed portion never made sense.
I modelled it as a piston port too, and that was a lot more predictable.

Shit in = Shit out, eh!

Even with that in the mix, I'm stoked (joyous?) at the results, even if they aren't super-dupa, they are at least dupa.

[koba]

I was well guilty of that sin. However I started on MB50s where the ring tips would fly off if revved to 12000 (even the 100s were more tolerant.
Then onto RG50s where the cranks didn't tolerate 13000 for any time plus the rings were thick enough to lose seal above 12000.
I thought the next stage with TZR crank parts and Kx pistons at 13000 were bone reliable. So I could have pushed higher but was reluctant due to earlier (regular) mishaps.
Commuter bikes had hard limits.

Fear of revs is a big part of it, eh.

Sometimes it is fear, other times it's practical.

My old nail still runs an original style (road tune) piston, I dropped one of the rings but it's still, well, rather "plump".
That seems to be the rev limit.

For the MB100 as a platform, to do a 12.5k redline kinda deal is about 20% of the resources of going above that, from what I've done anyway.
Some of that will be a lack of experience and wisdom, but mostly it's diminishing returns in a sport where power is cool but the main reason I turn(ed?) up was basically social.

[wobbly]

Re the TF125 .pack info. I thought I would do a couple of pages at a time and suggest changes as needed.
First, engine geometry.

The MSV with a 0.9 squish gap is way, way low. Changing the width back to 50% and going to 0.65mm gap gives 39M/s which is close to the recommended start point of 40M/s
for most applications.
With this very short stroke, that depth will be nowhere near the piston clipping in the overev.

The CCR - if you add the Transfer volume , found on the transfer page we get 566cc with those ducts added in. This equals a CCR of 1.278, is this what you actually measured as it is quite big
for a piston port , and well big for a reed engine.
I automatically put the Exhaust Transducer at the duct length - to measure what the Mach is at that point later in the sim optimization, so I put in 72mm.

Moving onto the Exhaust Port.

The corner rads are OK, but the top and bottom timing edges are way too flat.
Using the FOS guidelines we get 4.5mm for the top corners and a center radius of 75% of bore = 42mm.
The bottom corner should extend up to around TPO , to reduce short circuiting, so I put in 10mm
This reduces the Blowdown STA, so I simply widened the port out to 40mm = 71%, so safe, and that got us back to the 24Hp Blowdown STA needed.

The duct exit is enormous, as the original 36mm = 127% of the port area, using the software radio button gives us a 30.4mm exit = 90%.
This should be easy to do by counterboring the duct and pushing in an insert, then grinding and blending the shape.

So there is the first set of changes I recommend.