ESE's works engine tuner

[saxet]

As a side note to all. It's not just about power, though it can mean lots. Don't underestimate handling. After changes to my handling I estimate I could take a second a lap off my Taupo times. Might get a cance to prove that at some stage.

[SS90]

OK, ss90 reading your posts , I get the Idea that you think that nobody in NZ has made a 2 stroke capable of much more than powering a lawnmower. 20hp from a 100cc engine seems common 23hp less common but still done.
Your style of "I know it but arent going to tell you" isnt going to win you any admirers.
If CVF is the answer , what was the question? Overheating? If cvf was the true path to power GP teams would use it, and motocross would have adopted it. It seems like a solution looking for a problem, mask the transfer tunnels so the cvf will work, getting tha last bit of good mix from under the piston at the expense of the good mix in the bottom of the crankcase.

My understanding of "scavenging" seems to differ from yours, scavenging is the process of sweeping the exhaust gasses from the cylinder after combustion, the better the scavenging the less the fresh charge is diluted/polluted by the spent gasses. The crankcase is not scavenged just pumped out or emptied into the cylinder , the depression caused by the pipe assists in this.

High crankcase compression and skinny pipes results in peaky engines , low crankcase compression and fat pipes wider power.

bucket racing isnt just about flash motors, you actually need to be able to ride to win, a 28ps motor isnt a ticket to win, plenty of guys kick my arse on bikes making less powerthan mine because they know the real secret, but I cant tell you what is is because that wouldnt be any fun

Well, your making this a bit personal, and that's a bit rough!

Now, don't get upset, but did you read the quote from Wikipedia?

The whole system of this 2 stroke design is called "loop scavenging", I am saying, this does not only refer to the exhaust scavenging, (after which it was named) but also to the crankcase.

The original system of loop scavenging, I believe can be expanded on, to include "crankcase scavenging"

That's the point I am trying to make.

Also, I am certainly NOT advocating the use of C.V.F, my earlier posts have pointed out that I learned that it is less effective than people first believed.

But it does have an effect.....

The reason I point it out is to help TeeZee (and others who want to help, and remember, in doing this, I am also learning!)

Maybe something new can be found.

My references to C.V.F are to demonstrate the direction that the rest of the world has gone.

To go forward, you have to see where others have been.

The attachment you posted........

My god. It makes you look silly, not me.

However, this is all....."off topic"

That over, lets get back "on topic....."

TeeeZeeee's GP125, and keeping it cooler. I don't have all the answers (by any means), but , I have some ideas.



This all came about because I was prompted to explain the concept of the carb size (24mm, the maximum allowed by the rules) is contributing to the hotter hunning of the engine, and I stated that I believed that to make it more efficient, (in this case, not a general rule by any means), then the primary compression ratio needs to be increased, due to the fact that the mods (cylinder spacer, chamfered crank web) have lowered that ratio, and it needs to be raised to 1.5:1, in order to improve the pumping efficiency of the crankcase.

[SS90]

As a side note to all. It's not just about power, though it can mean lots. Don't underestimate handling. After changes to my handling I estimate I could take a second a lap off my Taupo times. Might get a cance to prove that at some stage.

Yup, 100% right on that one......We have all seen RS125R's kick bigger bikes arse all the way round the track!

[bucketracer]

SS90 We are still waiting for an original idea.

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[koba]

Awesome thread and keep up the dialogue and , in particular the good work and hard effort by TZ350.

Aye, This is awesomly interesting!

[TZ350]

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I suspect the main players are already familiar with the material but I am pleased to see SS90 taking the trouble to write it up.

Better handling, I am desperate to get onto improving the handling and am in complete agreement, but its not what I am trying to do today. I want to get on top of the heat issue, I see it as a means to improve the driveability of the bike.

I reckon that if my bike was gently warmed up then run up on an inertia dyno it would feel Phat and score in the low 20's for HP. I think an inertia dyno run looks like the same sort of work out for the engine as pulling out of the pits and away from the first corner and maybe half way up the first hill at Taupo.

Then the second inertia dyno run equivalent is pulling out of the back sweeper uphill to the back straight (drag strip). So by the time I get to the start line the bike has done at least two solid inertia dyno run equivalents.

The Green Flag drops and by the time I have done the first lap the motor has done two more dyno runs.

12 minutes later the bike has done maybe 14 dyno run equivalents and is hot tired sagy and not lifting out of corners like it did and certainly not making 20+ HP.

I suspect the HP figures quoted for the Malossi and other barrels was not taken from the 14th dyno run, of 14 runs all in quick succession.

I suspect the Malossi HP figures were taken from the first run in most cases and for the more genuine tuner possibly the third run.

A real test would be twelve quick consecuitave hard runs, discarding the higest and lowest and then averaging the rest.

Heat is the issue for me today, so I can keep more of what Ive got.

Busting my guts to get onto the handling.

There is so much work to do.

Learning to ride, now that's just frightening!

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[TZ350]

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The more I read the more I suspected the CVF Malossi idea had become a marketing ploy like ceramic coating is, than a real performance improvement, but an interesting idea.

I have my own ideas on how to utilise the dead space under the piston.

My first thought was that its ok if the mixture stays there and gets a free ride up and down. Then the GP has the gully port at the back and the mixture flow through the piston cools it and thats good and "Not" so good as this means that hoter mixture is now entering the combustion chamber.

My idea was to use fuel injection and to inject some or all of the fuel in such away as the liquid fuel directly strikes the underside of the piston crown as the piston descends to BDC.

This has several effects, directly cools the piston crown, more completely vaporises the fuel and the pressure of the vaporised fuel helps in the transfer process by pushing mixture up the transfers.

There it is an "original idea" (for me anyway), what have you got for us SS90.

Does anyone know how fast a common car fuel injector can be run? I would like to know.

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[bucketracer]

The original system of loop scavenging, I believe can be expanded on, to include "crankcase scavenging"

That's the point I am trying to make.

And expanded on again to include the "suck from the exhaust pipe and expanded once more to include the push from the inlet resonance and you have the picture that Speedpro was painting.

From what Speedpro says I can see Mass flow comes from an inter-dependent system made up of several parts of which crankcase pumping is one part.

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[Yow Ling]

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Does anyone know how fast a common car fuel injector can be run? I would like to know.

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1 to 3mS to open , at 12000rpm you have 5mS between firings so you gunna need big injector(s) 4t stuff moves slower so you get longer dwell time to sort out the injections

[saxet]

O.k. i havn't read anything yet and despite what i said earlier about not spoutin forth I've a sneaking suspicion SS90 is on about shaping the transfer port inlet to creat a pressure pulse to aid crankcase scavenging rather than shaping them for least restriction. Comments,praise or scorn please.

[TZ350]

Current handling mods to the GP125:- 2.5X17 front 3.5X17 rear wire wheels, RS125 Rubber, braced frame, braced swingarm, GT185 forks and front brake, quality rear shock, rubber swing arm bushes replaced with bronse/steel inserts, rear sets, race seat, ballance 55% rear 45% front with rider aboard and everything tucked in so nothing scrapes the ground during hard cornering.

Planned mods (wish list):- bigger front brake (I get tired pulling the bike up every 33-34sec.) and would like something easier to use. Get the balance 50/50, Lower the stearing head 2", shorten the forks and fork travel. Improve the front compression damping. RPM triggered Air quick Shifter and Data logger.

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[Sully60]

O.k. i havn't read anything yet and despite what i said earlier about not spoutin forth I've a sneaking suspicion SS90 is on about shaping the transfer port inlet to creat a pressure pulse to aid crankcase scavenging rather than shaping them for least restriction. Comments,praise or scorn please.

Have some scorn; go to bed old man!

[saxet]

Have some scorn; go to bed old man!

Shoula seen that comin.

[TZ350]

O.k. i havn't read anything yet and despite what i said earlier about not spoutin forth I've a sneaking suspicion SS90 is on about shaping the transfer port inlet to creat a pressure pulse to aid crankcase scavenging rather than shaping them for least restriction. Comments,praise or scorn please.

I hope so, if the GP transfers need reshaping because of the thick cylinder spacer I use I have the room to do it.

As I need to reduce the crankcase volume, building up and reshaping the transfer inlets would be a good way to do it.

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[saxet]

Like the handing plans TZ350