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Thread: ESE's works engine tuner

  1. #4921
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    Bottom line is that when tuned for max power the disc valve does make more than a reed - those flapper things are always "in the way" to some extent..
    But there are many trade offs.The disc will have NO power at all under the tuned for range, as it cannot suppress reversion at low rpm, and you cannot tune out the fact that the intake waves are telling the main jet signal all manner of lies,repeatedly.
    Thus a reed engine can have much wilder exhaust timing and pipe design without giving away a heap of "under the pipe" power, and this exhaust tuning can have plenty of overev power as well, if that's what is needed.
    An example would be the pipes I did for the fastest,and record breaking Honda RS250 on the salt last year, it had over 90RWHp between 12000 and nearly 15000,so would simply keep revving till the aero drag stopped it.
    The peak power was "only" 96 I think, but it had plenty everywhere else it was needed.
    To get that sort of overev power from the RV would mean it would be all but impossible to get it to carburate off the pipe, as the closing timing needed to get to 15000 would be mentally wild ( like 98*+ ).
    And the last thing to consider is that despite what the supremely clever Frits and Jan say and did - in the last year of 250GP a Honda reed valve engine kicked Aprillias arse in the title - with a guy who cant ride a MotoGP bike to save himself.
    The newer RSA engine is probably an unbeatable combination in 125GP, but for many other less demanding applications the reed has real, and useable, advantages.
    Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.

  2. #4922
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Tonight Speedpro won the race to be the first documented usefull Bucket engine at 30rwhp

  3. #4923
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    Quote Originally Posted by TZ350 View Post
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    Tonight Speedpro won the race to be the first documented usefull Bucket engine at 30rwhp
    Congrads all around I am more impressed by the torque curve myself.

    For Wob did Yam end up using some form of Electronic control in the end. I had a little search on the net but came up empty on the disk valve Yam.
    The problem with the disk valve for a bucket in my opinion is that you are stuck with basing the motor on a 1970s design. I am aiming for a 1990s design motor.
    PS What did ya think of the Walter write up.Check out the determination in his eyes.



    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  4. #4924
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    Quote Originally Posted by TZ350 View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Tonight Speedpro won the race to be the first documented usefull Bucket engine at 30rwhp
    All the long hours and hard work paid off. Well done Mike.

  5. #4925
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    May the power be with you my son

    WoooHoo Green man,on the money dude - glad to see that after all these years my TSR predicted 35 or whatever crank power at 13000 has come to pass.

    I had some good pics of the disc Yamaha, but dont remember any gizmo's on the RV at all.

    I printed off Walters pic and want to frame it on a wall - anyone seen a better quality version on the net I can download.
    He can hang next to my Hero Helmut Fath.
    Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.

  6. #4926
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    20th July 2010 - 07:56
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    Quote Originally Posted by wobbly View Post
    in the last year of 250GP a Honda reed valve engine kicked Aprillias arse in the title - with a guy who cant ride a MotoGP bike to save himself.
    2009 250GP was a classic and Aoyama deserved the title. The Honda was receiving new parts all through the season but was still unable to match the speed of the Aprilia and Gilera, but it had the handling! Aoyama was consistent and won when he needed to, Supermoncelli (what my 4 year old calls him) suffered bad luck and general madness (see Mugello) and Bautista cracked under pressure and did stupid things like flipping the bike over backwards.
    BRING BACK THE 250's!

  7. #4927
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    8th February 2007 - 20:42
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    Yea Kel, you are right about the 250 year.
    But even running supertrick Ohlins and with more top end speed the RV brigade didnt perform.
    Aoyama was well fast enough with the reed Honda and Showa's to be consistantly at the front and take points,every time.

    Here is a pic for TZ350 - new head I have just done for Trevor Discombes bike.Must be the first TZ350 in the world with Toroid inserts.
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    Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.

  8. #4928
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    Quote Originally Posted by wobbly View Post
    Yea Kel, you are right about the 250 year.
    But even running supertrick Ohlins and with more top end speed the RV brigade didnt perform.
    Aoyama was well fast enough with the reed Honda and Showa's to be consistantly at the front and take points,every time.

    Here is a pic for TZ350 - new head I have just done for Trevor Discombes bike.Must be the first TZ350 in the world with Toroid inserts.
    Why all alloy inserts? didn't the TZ350 have some brass rings in std as in my post ? pages or so back Wob.
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    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  9. #4929
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    25th March 2004 - 17:22
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    . . . didn't the TZ350 have some brass rings in std as . . .
    Not std

    Quote Originally Posted by wobbly View Post
    . . .Must be the first TZ350 in the world with Toroid inserts.
    You mean after the period ones you are replicating in keeping with Classic ethos (Alongside the fat spannies on the Metrallas)
    Don't you look at my accountant.
    He's the only one I've got.

  10. #4930
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    18th May 2007 - 20:23
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    Modified a clutch tonight. Machined something of the back of the hub and of each plate with a jig made along the lines discribed to me by Speedpro.

    So now with a 7th plate I have 17% more friction plate area, I still would like to get away from the pin retainers and look forward to the clutch parts with the conventional spring retaining bolts Kick is sending me, but hopefully this mod will do in the mean time.
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  11. #4931
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    Quote Originally Posted by F5 Dave View Post
    Not std

    You mean after the period ones you are replicating in keeping with Classic ethos (Alongside the fat spannies on the Metrallas)


    so back in 1978 they ran standard heads on there race bikes ? (dont think so. they cheated as much as they could get away with)

    I remember one racer running yamaha heads on his suzuki
    and the sience experiments on fuel that went on (in the kitchen)
    and stories of his mate leaping around on fire while everyone watched because there where no visable flames
    "Instructions are just the manufacturers opinion on how to install it" Tim Taylor of "Tool Time"
    “Saying what we think gives us a wider conversational range than saying what we know.” - Cullen Hightower

  12. #4932
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    TZs weren't production bikes, anything went, no problem there, no cheating modding a TZ. Meth was legal too. Heck it made the BMS F2 Duke competitive with TZs, That got R.Taylor a bit hot under the collar.
    Don't you look at my accountant.
    He's the only one I've got.

  13. #4933
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buckets4Me View Post
    so back in 1978 they ran standard heads on there race bikes ? (dont think so. they cheated as much as they could get away with)

    I remember one racer running Yamaha heads on his Suzuki
    and the science experiments on fuel that went on (in the kitchen)
    and stories of his mate leaping around on fire while everyone watched because there where no visible flames
    People forget you can do anything within the capacity limits in classic other than adding 4 valve heads to something that didn't have them in the period and as long as the silhouette is the same its A-ok.Cams was even more forgiving.

    People have always cheated when was the last time anyone had a engine stripped.Other than maybe 250 proddy racing.
    I think I can remember a f2 shit fight with a TZ250 the name of the rider alludes me.
    Rob T was the tuner and on the 750 Ducati Robert H was the rider and I think ? OConnor was the tuner on a 900 bottom end (6 SPEED)was a big scrap and protest back and forwards not sure if they opened up the engines though but when has it ever happened in NZ.I AM meaning protests and stripping motors as a result.

    New question for the panel
    What is the octane of NZ av gas RON/MON
    That is legal now according to the fuel Regs right?
    I hadn't noticed that it was in the new rules as it always pump fuel in the old regs.
    How much different does the av Gas behave than the super I am guessing even AV gas is low lead now?I seem to remember Wob saying that was why the mixture is leaned off now after peak for over rev it being a quirk of unleaded?



    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  14. #4934
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    Great work Speedpro, raising the bar is good for buckets !
    My neighbours diary says I have boundary issues

  15. #4935
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    Quote Originally Posted by F5 Dave View Post
    TZs weren't production bikes, anything went, no problem there, no cheating modding a TZ. Meth was legal too. Heck it made the BMS F2 Duke competitive with TZs, That got R.Taylor a bit hot under the collar.
    Does that make Hurderman the tuner then?RH was no mug on a bike remember he would have done all right on a XR100 RIP RH.But anyway.

    The point was was trying to make (obviously not that well)was hardly ever does an engine get stripped.
    Both bike were as far as I know or care legal.
    But cheating in all forms of motorsport is I am afraid quite rife.
    It always has been
    I am not saying it's right it's just a sad fact of life.Cheaters often do prosper.I am not calling either a cheat BTH.
    It is so easy to build an oversize motor.and if they are never stripped they are never caught.

    And how did you slip in the post about mine when I posted after yours.did you change your whole post Dave?is that cheating?



    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

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