ESE's works engine tuner

[F5 Dave]

um whats wrong with just the proper gearbox oil. motul trans works for me & as said before a well abused clutch.

that 50 curve makes lots of f4 bikes a bit sick.

[Buckets4Me]

motul trans works for me

Was it around in the 70's ?

old habits and all

[wobbly]

Getting 20 from a 50 is easy, its all in the numbers,but its certainly not cheap..
If you have all the components working together in synergy then the STAs tell us it can be done.
Note how well every variable is right on the money - and as long as you implement every mod remembering that we are dealing with a "on the limit" scenario,then the numbers do translate into reality.
I have a KTM50 cylinder on its way from England for a customer now, the pics look like its very very well made.

[husaberg]

Getting 20 from a 50 is easy, its all in the numbers,but its certainly not cheap..
If you have all the components working together in synergy then the STAs tell us it can be done.
Note how well every variable is right on the money - and as long as you implement every mod remembering that we are dealing with a "on the limit" scenario,then the numbers do translate into reality.
I have a KTM50 cylinder on its way from England for a customer now, the pics look like its very very well made.

The KTM 50 SX cylinders I have seen have a super thick alloy liner. I guess they use the same cylinder on the 65.The gaskets are the same including the head gasket which is weird.These are the pre 09 ones though.
The 2002 to 2008 I think are manufactured by maybe Beta or Minerelli.The 09 ones onwards are a new engine are much easier to ride and faster for the kids.
The Chinese do a rip off of the engine the quality may be a little lacking no doubt.It could be melted down to make a pretty effective wok. We could use SS90 for the former. He does have a wok shaped noggin already.
http://motors.shop.ebay.com/partdisc...911.m270.l1313

For the panel
I must admit I was a little horrified when I asked what TZ was using for oil and he said ATF but it seems after snooping around that heaps of people do indeed use it. Without drama.
I had a good look around and it seems there are pro's and cons to both. but I do prefer gearbox oil myself or 4 stroke motorbike oil at a pinch and I have used Mobil one with good results Naughty yes.I used 4T later which i think was the same just repriced and packaged.
I do use ATF in the KTM50 (slipper clutch) but I hate doing it and change it every meeting.
Do Auto trans have thin gears with high pressure points in them forgive my ignorance I have never looked in a slush box.
From what i found out the first uses for synthetic oils where for gearbox and diff oils etc as they perform such extreme duty with huge shear forces between the gears or so I read anyway.
One thing I do know from experience is that Honda's with lsds in the front (the old trx300 4wd) hated Castrol Syntrax it made them noisy (clickey for want of a better description) I do not know why.the Yamahas were no issues with them put the oil std oil in the Honda's and they were quiet again.
I found this about ATF fluid specs in a net debate

"ATF type F doesn't foam up. the B & M tranny fluid is just type F . Why type -f ? Because Mercon and Dexron contain additives that are designed to provide a soft clutch engagement in automobile slushboxes for smooth shifting. Type F contains additives that are designed to enhance clutch grip."

I also found this counter claim
http://www.gtfours.co.uk/what/atf/atf.htm
http://twostrokemotocross.com/forum/...hp?topic=483.0
http://www.allthingsmoto.com/forums/...01/?forumid=14
I don't think it maters really. use what you are happy with and change it often.

[Henk]

old habits and all

Discovered fire yet?

[Buckets4Me]

For the panel
I must admit I was a little horrified when I asked what TZ was using for oil and he said ATF but it seems after snooping around that heaps of people do indeed use it. Without drama.
"

holden specified it for there gearboxes in the manual commmy (VL I think)
then again it's a holden


maby it's the Jap in him

In the 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s, ATF contained whale oil as a friction modifier. But since whale oil would break down at higher temperatures, cars produced in the 1970s and later would not be able to use whale oil because of the higher engine coolant temperatures employed to reduce emissions and save fuel. A moratorium on whale oil at that time prevented the continued production of older ATFs such as the original DEXRON formulation (Type B), and the Type A which preceded it. General Motors began marketing Dexron II Type C and later Dexron II Type D to replace the whale oil-derived fluids.^[2]

[Chambers]

Do Auto trans have thin gears with high pressure points in them

All the auto trans that I have had apart have had planetary gears in them, typically three small planet gears rotating around a sun gear. I can't say if their pressure points are more or less than a std gear setup.

[husaberg]

holden specified it for there gearboxes in the manual commmy (VL I think)
then again it's a holden
maybe it's the Jap in him

VL Holden Aha. The gearbox could have lasted long enough to see out the engine before the head cracked with no oil in it .
I think in my internet search quest I see some bike manufacturers may also have speced ATF in bikes too. It seems you should avoid synthetic car oils with the eco label too.(Bad for clutches)
Re Chambers Interesting, planetary gears, I will have to have a look in one.(thanks Bucketracer below) My old Zetor had them in the hubs.totally off topic the old Zetor (Czechoslovakian made and rugged and Cheap) tractors reputably weighed so much more than any off the western tractors was because the casting were allegedly that porous the oil leaked out of them so they just made them thicker. They seemed to be painted on the inside to. Re the Jap in me the VL holden was Nissan powered remember. This also might go a long way to explaining my fetish with Asian chicks, maybe I am a Japanese lesbian trapped inside a Red necked yokel body. The Whale oil as ATF mmm... Whale oil and Whale meat is a little bland for that real steak of the sea taste, I suggest you can't go past Dolphin. They are after all just Cattle with better PR. EDIT (and less legs I guess.)

The more I look the more it becomes apparent yes ATF can be used (obviously)
Yes it may offer potential power increases (marginal )
but it doesn't offer the protection of a proper gear oil.(obviously)
Amsoil list the wear protection figures on their site and I did look like their ATF offered close to gear oil protection until I read the fine print.
The wear figures for the ATF which still didn't meet there gear oil for protection and was carried out at a lower temp and a lower speed.

Seeing Team ESE is Devoted to leaving no stone unturned in the quest for 2 stroke tuning.
Maybe a back to back transmission rundown test on the dyno and with a head to head HP run thin gear oil vs ATF oil shootout.

As an interesting aside (well to me anyway) the KTM50 sites recommend not using chain lube on the 415 chains with alloy sprockets they recomend silicon spray? Edit WD40 is what they recommend sorry

[bucketracer]

Planetary Gear



Auto Trans Planetary gear and clutch setup



A short course in Auto Trans. http://www.familycar.com/transmission.htm

[TZ350]

Ok, got a bit of dyno time tonight.

Fitted the pumper and the Vtec manifold with the valve locked in the open position.



Started to get some good runs but the laptop for adjusting the ignition packed a sulk and would not play the game. Now the motor is pulling from lower rev's the graph looks all squeezed up.

Looks like the pumper will work, just needs some ignition changes and the Vtec hooked up again. Hopefully the ATAC valve Wobbly suggested will take that 7,000 rpm dip out and I expect to get that topend back with a bit of ignition tweeking.

[Gigglebutton]

24mm Tillitson 360A



Don't see these on bikes very often, 26 hP and a better looking curve is pretty good going.

Do you think you will be able to get back to the 28.9 hP that I have seen here before?

[TZ350]

Do you think you will be able to get back to the 28.9 hP that I have seen here before?

Hopefully, and I think the Tillitson carb is up to it, but I think the extra inlet tract length that has crept in when I bent the carb up and out of the way is limiting the max rpm and over rev that can be achieved and the bend itself can't be helping either.

[husaberg]

Hopefully, and I think the Tillitson carb is up to it, but I think the extra inlet tract length that has crept in when I bent the carb up and out of the way is limiting the max rpm and over rev that can be achieved and the bend itself can't be helping either.

I thought the Tillotson was shorter than the std carb?
Have you thought of using the std carb cover with a packer spacer and an air filter attached to the side case or a round hole in the side case with a round piece of foam directly attached to it if that makes any sense Maybe a ramflow off a Webber carb if you remember those (aftermarket for good old fords escorts etc).Or sticking up at right angles to the carb.But not attached to it using the space as a air box plenum I think the yb100 or A50 or FS1e had something like that and prob the gp did std.
Either that or having the u bend after the carb but before the filter.If you catch my drift.
Alternatively maybe something like the old aprillia setup. Someone posted a pic of the RSA banjo somewhere
those old Rotax CanAms had an interesting looking induction system for a disc valve motor.
Then again there's always the pancake filter. maybe more Harley K&N type than SU design Shit i can't believe I said that.
Then again you could consider moving the engine over a couple of inches so the carb doesn't stick out so much.

[ac3_snow]

I had my package turn up from the states yesterday phew, after some previous experiences i was begining to have my doubts.

But good old ebay and 250 NZ$ means I now have two nice shiney new wiseco pistons. Soon I will get stuck in attempting to work out ccr and timing etc before piecing it all back together in hopefully a more premanent fashion than my last attempt

[TZ350]

Tips and Tricks.

Here is a very easy way of checking for a bent rod, a very useful assembly check.



Hold the barrel down and then with the piston at TDC slide a feeler gauge around the top, if the rod is even slightly bent it will be tighter on one side than the other. When I was working a lot with engines, this was a standard test done on every cylinder as a double check for alignment issues. You could also feel for broken rings this way too.

Circlips were always given a half turn in their grooves to be sure they were properly seated and there was no forgien matter caught behind them. If the clip was not properly in its grove when you turned it you could hear it click into place.