ESE's works engine tuner

[kel]

[QUOTE=Frits Overmars;1130190161]I did not intend to go alternative; I was just looking for a way to increase the angle*areas. And I had planned to build a 125 cc roadracer because if you want to show what you're worth, go for the strongest competion.
Alas, Dorna killed the 125 cc GP-class, so I decided to scale the design down to 50 cc.QUOTE]

Frits if your revolutionary cylinder is supplied as an AM6 aftermarket kit then it would be legal for our F5 racing class , perhaps 29hp is achievable from 50cc after all.

[kel]

Rather than start a new thread i thought i'd just ask in here:

Sleeving down a water cooled TZR125 to 100cc. Anyone got any experience doing this? Any advise / direction etc gratefully received.

A couple have been done. The limiting factor is the blowdown associated with the single exhaust port. Check with Bert.

[dmcca]

The tick box for start advance means the trailing edge of the lobe is used for triggering, and is the advance used at first kick up to 300rpm.
If you tick the maximum advance box above, the most advance you get is the base advance PLUS the lobe length, no matter what the curve says.
This isnt normally needed, but is a safety where you have alot of noise giving false triggering.

Kicking back at startup usually means you have too much advance initially.
I try to get no more than 15* of base timing, and even retard from that after 300rpm - up to say 1500rpm, before ramping up if kickback is an issue.
If you are reversing the trigger polarity, I would go back and change the wires on the ecu, and delete the software reversal.
The ECU works better this way by using a real dropping voltage to detect the lobe trailing edge and it is more reliable.

The CR250 curve is a nearly 65Hp on PumpGas engine for an open kart and revs to 11,000 + all day - then blows to pieces.

My Cr250 is actually a CR280 with B x S of 68.5 x 76mm and a longer 130mm rod, also the centre of new bore is offset to the rear by 1mm... all this adds up to a very different tdc position of the rotor,with tdc now being much earlier than the stock setup... tdc pretty much now coincides with the pick up being directly over the top of the trailing edge of the lobe (on second thoughts, maybe even just before the trailing edge...)

Ive currently got 2 degrees of base advance up to 1500rpm, but still playing with settings. The bike starts very easily with the stock ecu, always first kick with a half hearted effort, however plug the ignitech in and its a prick to start...

I need to get back into the shed, double check everything...

***EDIT... just double checked base advance... it is 5 degrees after the trailing edge of the lobe, will keep testing from here.

[TZ350]

Rob,re the Ignitech curve "issue". I think the Race unit only allows 30*

Yes the Race unit only allows 30 deg base advance, thanks for going into more detail, as I work through it I may have to ask more questions.

[TZ350]

The Bucket GP at Taupo.

My Laps:- http://www.mylaps.com/results/showevent.jsp?id=733033

Qualifying (Dry Track), best laps for:-

Andrew A 49.553
Alistair Hoogenboezem 49.567

TeeZee 53.312

So having a big hp bike did not make me a GP winner but it was sure fun to ride.

The GP was run in very wet conditions. Best laps for:-

Andrew A 49.212
Alistair Hoogenboezem 48.743

Both went faster in the wet than they did in Qualifying how good is that ....... that might happen in superbikes too, possibly, maybe.

F5Dave went faster in the wet on his 50 than I did in the dry on my 125, a big hats off to him ..... respect.

Me I completely bottled out in the wet and pulled in, while all my friends in the pits made the chicken clucking noise, bastards. ....

If the big hp team ESE bikes have to prove themselves on the track, then they need someone way better at riding than me to do it.

Av and Speedpro started about 32-36 on the grid and cut their way through the field to finished 8th and 9th both had to ease up a bit in the last laps, Speedpro because his engine was getting hot and Av was having trouble shifting gears towards the end.

It was great watching them out accelerating other bikes along the back straight. The front running FXR's of Andrew, Richban, Gavin, Alistair Hoogenboezem's CBR and I am sure a few other FXR's have been well tuned as they were very fast. In practice and pre-lim my bike did not seem that fast, it struggled past bikes that I thought it should easily take down that long back straight.

After the pre-lim Andrew A came over and gave me a few tips about a still air box and suggested I setup some sort of wind shield in front of the carb so the wind did not blow directly across the bell mouth.

While I was trying to fashion something out of a Tupperware container I broke the fuel barb of the top of the Tillotson plastic carb cap, bugger. I thought may day was over but John Steer and Warwick Head came to the rescue with a fitting, drill and glue and in half an hour it was fixed.

The wind break must have been what the carb needed because when I went out on the track again the bike sounded real sharp and made short work of some of the bikes that I could berley get past before.

It was a great time catching up with old friends, and meeting new ones. Roll on the next GP, can't wait, big hp is fun fun fun even if I can't ride for nuts.

[explode64]

The tick box for start advance means the trailing edge of the lobe is used for triggering, and is the advance used at first kick up to 300rpm.
If you tick the maximum advance box above, the most advance you get is the base advance PLUS the lobe length, no matter what the curve says.
This isnt normally needed, but is a safety where you have alot of noise giving false triggering.

Kicking back at startup usually means you have too much advance initially.
I try to get no more than 15* of base timing, and even retard from that after 300rpm - up to say 1500rpm, before ramping up if kickback is an issue.
If you are reversing the trigger polarity, I would go back and change the wires on the ecu, and delete the software reversal.
The ECU works better this way by using a real dropping voltage to detect the lobe trailing edge and it is more reliable.

The CR250 curve is a nearly 65Hp on PumpGas engine for an open kart and revs to 11,000 + all day - then blows to pieces.

What year CR made 60+HP?
What else was done to the motor?
Im still developing my 01 CR250

[Shorty_925]

The Bucket GP at Taupo.

My Laps:- http://www.mylaps.com/results/showevent.jsp?id=733033

Qualifying (Dry Track)

Andrew A 49.553
Alistair Hoogenboezem 49.567

TeeZee 53.312

So having a big hp bike did not make me a GP winner but it was sure fun to ride.

The GP was run in very wet conditions.

Andrew A 49.212
Alistair Hoogenboezem 48.743

Both went faster in the wet than they did in Qualifying how good is that ....... me I completely bottled out and pulled in, while all my friends in the pits made the chicken clucking noise, bastards

F5Dave went faster in the wet on his 50 than I did in the dry on my 125, a big hats off to him.

Av and Speedpro started about 30-32 on the grid and cut their way through the field to finished 8th and 9th both had to ease up a bit in the last laps, Speedpro because his engine was getting hot and Av was having trouble shifting gears towards the end.

It was great watching them out accelerating other bikes along the back straight.

Time to get a 4 stroke?

[speedpro]

Time to get a 4 stroke?

Far cough

[TZ350]

Time to get a 4 stroke?

Year Right ........ ...... might just have to help Chambers with building a decent engine for Av's bike.

[husaberg]

Time to get a 4 stroke?

More than two strokes in a Wan.

err..........


Then again if you are so convinced of the four stroke superiority. I guess you wont mind if we up the cc limits on the 2 strokes then will you.

[Bert]

Rather than start a new thread i thought i'd just ask in here:

Sleeving down a water cooled TZR125 to 100cc. Anyone got any experience doing this? Any advise / direction etc gratefully received.

A couple have been done. The limiting factor is the blowdown associated with the single exhaust port. Check with Bert.

Depends what version your got.
but, Kel is right blow down is the killer;
I'll let the cat out of the bag. if I was to re-sleeve again; I would seriously think about putting a bridge and opening the exhaust up. My Sleeve is about >8mm (I'll measure it up) which i think might get quite hot, but that should be thick enough to put a bridge in (with a little dishing??)..
Give up on the power valve just lock it open.
big end bearings... stupid size yamaha crap. followed Wooblys instructions and modified the crank (machined by ~1mm) to take off the shelf C3 bearings (floating).

Other than that, the little end pin (on the 4dl version; I assume that the more common 2RH is the same) is 16mm (not 14 or 15mm like most other 100-125); which makes it hard to find 50mm pistons for. But Yamaha did make a YZ100 1981-82 (50-52mm) with a 16mm gudgen (wiseco & woosner still produce them) but with a 1.5m ring... Conrods are the same as 250 so easily sourced.

Got my cylinder done in Whanganui half/Third the price of elsewhere and really impressed with the quality and workmanship (Through Brain Thorley Motorcycles)
Griffiths engineering (PN) has done some amazing work on the head (like a homemade VHM) and most other bits that are beyond me...


take the time to read through BusaPetes thread on his build (he bet me by a year and a half even though we started around the same time; work sucks..):
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...6-Yamagama-100

[kiwifruit]

Depends what version your got.
but, Kel is right blow down is the killer;
I'll let the cat out of the bag. if I was to re-sleeve again; I would seriously think about putting a bridge and opening the exhaust up. My Sleeve is about >8mm (I'll measure it up) which i think might get quite hot, but that should be thick enough to put a bridge in (with a little dishing??)..
Give up on the power valve just lock it open.
big end bearings... stupid size yamaha crap. followed Wooblys instructions and modified the crank (machined by ~1mm) to take off the shelf C3 bearings (floating).

Other than that, the little end pin (on the 4dl version; I assume that the more common 2RH is the same) is 16mm (not 14 or 15mm like most other 100-125); which makes it hard to find 50mm pistons for. But Yamaha did make a YZ100 1981-82 (50-52mm) with a 16mm gudgen (wiseco & woosner still produce them) but with a 1.5m ring... Conrods are the same as 250 so easily sourced.

Got my cylinder done in Whanganui half/Third the price of elsewhere and really impressed with the quality and workmanship (Through Brain Thorley Motorcycles)
Griffiths engineering (PN) has done some amazing work on the head (like a VHM) and most other bits that are beyond me...

Thanks Bert. I'll pass this on to my old man. he has a 1990(? - it's water cooled with 17 inch wheels) TZR125 and is looking to turn it into a bucket.

[Buckets4Me]

More than two strokes in a Wan.

err..........


Then again if you are so convinced of the four stroke superiority. I guess you wont mind if we up the cc limits on the 2 strokes then will you.

hay I walked into a new bike shop today . It was new about 2 weeks old and full of ktm's and there in the back corner in nice new blue paint was a half dosen HUSABERG's

[koba]

take the time to read through BusaPetes thread on his build (he bet me by a year and a half even though we started around the same time; work sucks..):
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...6-Yamagama-100

Did he really? Does it go? I saw it was for sale ages ago but was it actually fully functional?

Thanks Bert. I'll pass this on to my old man. he has a 1990(? - it's water cooled with 17 inch wheels) TZR125 and is looking to turn it into a bucket.

Fantastic!

[husaberg]

hay I walked into a new bike shop today . It was new about 2 weeks old and full of ktm's and there in the back corner in nice new blue paint was a half dosen HUSABERG's

I am going to sell mine now as they are obviously common as muck these days.
I will have to get my self a TM or something.
Don't you FXR150 riders hate it, when you get to a party and some other chick is wearing the same dress as you.