ESE's works engine tuner

[Bert]

I know the real answer is to get a programmable ignition

But how do you produce/record a map a plain analogue ignition. I guess you mark the rotor and use a strobe and poibly a camera and a tacho but how do you do it say on a KTM 50 where the rotor drives the water pump and is inner rotor.

There must be an easier way? I have had a look on the net for a map of one and for how to do them but no joy so far.

make up a router test bench. lathe up a shaft to suit the router and magneto (bearings to hold it all steady)
and a solid bracket to hold it all together (earth your spark plug well away from you).

timing light, hold/set the router at fixed RPM (measure that, easiest way is using a multimeter on the strobe measuring the frequency of pulses and do the maths)
and visually record the advance etc; then adjust the router RPM etc... bobs ya uncle.

Good way to test the entire system.

I got the idea from here:

http://www.sportdevices.com/ignition...n_test_machine

---> full desings for CDI's and TCI's


Interesting article here on modifying a KDX200 cdi (which some might find interesting; I think I've posted it before...):
http://www.geocities.com/a57ngel/moto/CDI.html

[husaberg]

make up a router test bench. lathe up a shaft to suit the router and magneto (bearings to hold it all steady)
and a solid bracket to hold it all together (earth your spark plug well away from you).

timing light, hold/set the router at fixed RPM (measure that, easiest way is using a multimeter on the strobe measuring the frequency of pulses and do the maths)
and visually record the advance etc; then adjust the router RPM etc... bobs ya uncle.

Good way to test the entire system.

I got the idea from here:

http://www.sportdevices.com/ignition...n_test_machine

---> full desings for CDI's and TCI's


Interesting article here on modifying a KDX200 cdi (which some might find interesting; I think I've posted it before...):
http://www.geocities.com/a57ngel/moto/CDI.html

Thanks Bert.

I was thinking of measuring the delay or advance with time. Of course a sparky may have another way I guess.

[Bert]

Thanks Bert.

I was thinking of measuring the delay or advance with time. Of course a sparky may have another way I guess.

in the KDX link he talks about a test circuit at the bottom of the page;
looks electrically plausible if you have the right input AC pulse frequency generator (easily enough to build) i.e the input AC voltage frequency will change with RPM...

[wobbly]

Here is a pic of cranks for Aprilia 250.
Full circle, full width, plenty of Mallory, high inertia, very low in cycle speed variation, lots of power and overev - why isnt your crank like this??

Also pic of my Ignition rig.
A vacuum cleaner motor with light rheostat, also reversable, has protractor on the other end.
I use a cheap kart rev counter and a strobe.
Doing curves on anything is easy, once its set up.

[husaberg]

Thanks both Bumslap on the KDX one I had seen it but obviously not read it, that well.

I guess the frequency generator is a function generator.

I was always going to try a build a simple Fi system with one back when injection was expensive.


Wobs crank pic above
What is the notch in the crankwheel at 9 oclock for?

Also for Fits
Oval and knife shaped rods.
they were all the rage in the 60"s.
Are there any advantages today?
I guess possibly not on a disk valve unless for comp, but on a reed?

[Frits Overmars]

Oval and knife-shaped conrods are better streamlined and meet a little less resistance when cutting through the contents of the crankcase. But I doubt whether they have any structural advantages.

The notch in the crankweb triggers the ignition. There's a Hall sensor at the crankcase looking at the crankshaft circumference. That gives a more accurate timing signal than a sensor looking at the end of a swaying shaft.
Below are some pictures of the Aprilia RSA125; the red arrows indicate the ignition sensor.

[wobbly]

That notch for timing reminds me of one of the cleverest triggering setups I have seen.
In the SwissAuto/Pulse flying web engine there were two magnets at 180* in one crank web with only 1 sensor, setup much as the pic of the RSA125.
I spent ages trying to figure out how it worked, untill one day I grabbed another magnet and discovered that each one inside the crank
was orientated N & S pole outward.
The trigger sensed the N pole as cylinders 1,3 and the S pole as 2,4, bloody clever and as simple as it could be made.

[speedpro]

That notch for timing reminds me of one of the cleverest triggering setups I have seen.
In the SwissAuto/Pulse flying web engine there were two magnets at 180* in one crank web with only 1 sensor, setup much as the pic of the RSA125.
I spent ages trying to figure out how it worked, untill one day I grabbed another magnet and discovered that each one inside the crank
was orientated N & S pole outward.
The trigger sensed the N pole as cylinders 1,3 and the S pole as 2,4, bloody clever and as simple as it could be made.

The Haltech engine management syatem I have is exactly the same. S pole sets the system to "home" and fires channel 1, the N pole triggers channel 2.

[husaberg]

That notch for timing reminds me of one of the cleverest triggering setups I have seen.
In the SwissAuto/Pulse flying web engine there were two magnets at 180* in one crank web with only 1 sensor, setup much as the pic of the RSA125.
I spent ages trying to figure out how it worked, untill one day I grabbed another magnet and discovered that each one inside the crank
was orientated N & S pole outward.
The trigger sensed the N pole as cylinders 1,3 and the S pole as 2,4, bloody clever and as simple as it could be made.

How did the RDLC work they seemed to only have one trigger and if i remember correct a double ended coil. They wouldn't have lazy sparked ? or did they? seems they did.

[TZ350]

TZ, you will have to get them from Post2T. Instead of selecting 'power' graph, you should select 'Delay', 'Durat' (duration), 'VibeA' and 'VibeB'. Then manually transfer the values to the respective columns in the Combustion file. It takes some time...

yes DR is delivery ratio. TexAv = average temp in middle of the pipe. TuMax = max temp of unburnt gas in the squish. PexPort = pressure ratio at the exhaust port. Go into help from the Post 2T screen,then plot options, then performance traces, also go to thermo traces for those terms.

Thanks dinamik2t and Wobbly, I have been able to find that info and use it, it sure changes things and with a bit more polish I recon I will have a good working model (pic1 crank hp simulation) soon of the real thing (the 28.9rwhp graphs in pic2).

[wobbly]

Sorry I didnt see the question about transferring the Comb info.
The engine mechanical configuration such as pipe dimensions have no effect on the results.
So I always refine the model as best I can, then run turbulent, tabulate the results , and transfer the data.
Once its been transferred,you can run prescribed from then on, that is much faster to run the sim.
I get pissed when just making a small change to a pipe, then having to wait any more than a minute for the result.
To make the sim run faster use a 64bit Windoze system, and its processor speed that then dictates the run time.
The code doesnt fully support multi threading yet, so using a 4 core isnt faster.
But I got a 2 core that is based on the 4 core die, and overclocked it to hell.
This can handle the heat no problem and runs at 4.4GHz with 16GB ram.

[dinamik2t]

The code doesnt fully support multi threading yet, so using a 4 core isnt faster.
But I got a 2 core that is based on the 4 core die, and overclocked it to hell.
This can handle the heat no problem and runs at 4.4GHz with 16GB ram.

Thanks for the info!
I did some testing too a few weeks ago. As you say multi threading isn't fully supported, but there is some sharing. When I change affinity to a single core it went 100% load, while with all 4 a have an average of 35%. I 've set specific program specs and overclock 2 cores to run the engmod2t.exe at 3.5 through 'fsb' hehe Lucky you, can reach 4.4 on air?? Brand new 32nm CPU ??
Ram doesn't seem to be needed in this sim.. 16gb is huge!

Well, that's all with the off topic.
Wobbly, could you give some more info on the inlet tuning through intake wave observing?
I remember saying something about intake length tuning @ the 3rd harmonic, while crank pressure droping and in rising.
I did some testing but best results didn't always appear at the above situation. Actually, I always tried to tune at top-power rpm.
I got the best results in here:

[F5 Dave]

Here is a pic of cranks for Aprilia 250.
Full circle, full width, plenty of Mallory, high inertia, very low in cycle speed variation, lots of power and overev - why isnt your crank like this??
. . .

ahh, yeah that looks just like my std MB crank.
Thanks for posting the pic. Are the singles cranks different?

[wobbly]

I only use 16MB ram for running SolidWorks - it needs all of it.
The intake tuning is shown in this thread. - http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...post1130187153.
The 3rd harmonic gives the best spread of power for a 2T, as it has a higher frequency but lower amplitude than the lower harmonics.
From messing about I have found that a length from the bellmouth correction to the 2/3 reed end length of around 135mm is good for a 125 running up past 12000
And another example being the RZ400 F3 engine the total length is 205 for tune at 10,000.

[teriks]

EDIT: Beaten by wobbly by a few seconds it seems

Well, that's all with the off topic.
Wobbly, could you give some more info on the inlet tuning through intake wave observing?
I remember saying something about intake length tuning @ the 3rd harmonic, while crank pressure droping and in rising.
I did some testing but best results didn't always appear at the above situation. Actually, I always tried to tune at top-power rpm.
I got the best results in here:

Some info from Wobbly in the other EngMod2t-thread, but maybe not what you are looking for?.