ESE's works engine tuner

[jasonu]

You are dead right - but we are dealing with buckets here after all.
The dead set fact remains, that if and when a 100cc bucket is correctly made, and assembled, and tuned, then is ridden by a competent rider in a good chassis on good tyres,there will not be a 4T within site.
Its simply physics - not rampant bias or dreaming.
So that is the main reason I am here helping guys out - the end result is without question, its just finding a way to get there.

Mostly agreed mate. I don't think the above described bike will simply ride off into the distance as by the time it is finally built someone will no doubt have put a 4t into a GP chassis and will also have had time to further develop their motors.

[Moooools]

You are dead right - but we are dealing with buckets here after all.
The dead set fact remains, that if and when a 100cc bucket is correctly made, and assembled, and tuned, then is ridden by a competent rider in a good chassis on good tyres,there will not be a 4T within site.
Its simply physics - not rampant bias or dreaming.
So that is the main reason I am here helping guys out - the end result is without question, its just finding a way to get there.

See you in ten years.

[F5 Dave]

Learn some History Max. 2 stroke victories outweigh 4 stroke ones by more than 2:1 at a generous guestimation.

[bucketracer]

But it has yet to be proven 'useful' and sorry to say the same goes for the rest of the big HP buckets.

What I meant by usefull was that Speedpros engine designed by Wob could be easily ridden around the track, TeeZee's 30 wasn't so useable and he prefered to use a lessor engine at the Taupo GP.

[TZ350]

What I meant by usefull was that Speedpros engine could be easily ridden around the track, TeeZee's 30 wasn't so useable and he prefered to use a lessor engine at the Taupo GP.

Maybe there has been other 30rwhp 2-strokers in the past, mine was the first to record 30 on a dyno, Speedpros 30 was the first that I know of, thats power spread was good enough to be ridden succesfully in a race, he started 39th off the back of the grid and finished in the top 10 (8th??) and there were two other strokers that finished ahead of him.

The dead set fact remains, that if and when a 100cc bucket is correctly made, and assembled, and tuned, then is ridden by a competent rider in a good chassis on good tyres,there will not be a 4T within site.

Its simply physics -

So that is the main reason I am here helping guys out - the end result is without question, its just finding a way to get there.

Like Wobbly I think the end result is without question.

Its a numbers thing, currently the 4-strokers have more of the better riders but it is only a matter of time before a few realy good riders get hold of or build fast easy to ride strokers and the tide turns, the day is coming.

[jasonu]

Its a numbers thing, currently the 4-strokers have more of the better riders but it is only a matter of time before a few realy good riders get hold of or build fast easy to ride strokers and the tide turns, the day is coming.

I hope you are proven right.

[Moooools]

Learn some History Max. 2 stroke victories outweigh 4 stroke ones by more than 2:1 at a generous guestimation.

I appologise for not taking the time to ask an old timer for the exact break down of two stroke to four stroke wins. Like yourself.

Just simply stating 2:1 is a not really good info. Is that including pre rule change results? Pre fxr results? Pre cbr results?

I would love to have a resonably comprehensive list of all winners - right from the early days - and a few hours with excell. If you could give me a list i will churn you out aome actual stats.

Would be very interesting despite being a pointless exercise.

[husaberg]

I appologise for not taking the time to ask an old timer for the exact break down of two stroke to four stroke wins. Like yourself.

Just simply stating 2:1 is a not really good info. Is that including pre rule change results? Pre fxr results? Pre cbr results?

I would love to have a resonably comprehensive list of all winners - right from the early days - and a few hours with excell. If you could give me a list i will churn you out aome actual stats.

Would be very interesting despite being a pointless exercise.

Tell you what give me a copy of the results as well and I will show you just how easy it is to manipulate statistics to gain any desired outcome.

Lies lies and damned statistics.

The simple fact is both 4 strokes and 2 stroke both have their on pro's and con's

Horse's for courses as it were.

Back to the thread. IE 2 stroke tuning.

I was informed last evening that my new engine had indeed arrived in New Zealand.
It will be case reed. If only, because there is no legal modern engine that is Rotary valve.
Which is a shame. It will also be 100cc 2 stroke. Square bore and stroke with an effective power valve.
It has a six speed gearbox with alternate ratios available if necessary.


It will please Fits. I guess, in that it will be liquid cooled.
It will please Wob in that it will provide him something to play with.
It will please me when it makes 35hp at the rear wheel as this is the target. With a wide power spread.
It will please the MNZ in that it will 100% legal.
It will please Dave in that it is a Honda.
It will please Rob in that it will be documented here.


I also hope it may piss off more than a few FXR's.
As for some reason a few people, are under a delusion that they are some sort of racing engine.

[TZ350]

It will please Rob in that it will be documented here. I also hope it may piss off some FXR's.

I look forward to following the progress ....

I include No Mates' bike because as far as I know it has yet to finish a GP on a big track.

Not sure why Nigals has had reliability issues, the team ESE bikes have finished plenty of long track races and proved quite reliable, some are making a few ponies now and still seem to hold together ok, they just need better riders, mine in particular.

But it has yet to be proven 'useful' and sorry to say the same goes for the rest of the big HP buckets

From a graph I have seen Adlams and Rich's bikes make plenty of mid 20's power, there are a few other over 20 hp FXR's and a 20+ CBR or two out there, see if you can pick them out at the next race meeting. One thing for sure, anything 4-stroke at the pointy end does not have a standard engine.

[Henk]

I also hope it may piss off some FXR's.
As for some reason people are under a delusion that they are some sort of racing engine.

OK I'll bite.
FXRs are popular not because they are a shit hot race bike but because they are the only bike at the moment that is available in reasonable numbers, for not much cash that isn't 20 years old. I love two strokes but there is a good reason we have a fleet of FXRs, i don't have the time and knowledge to build a similar number of strokers for a start.

[TZ350]

FXRs are popular not because they are a shit hot race bike but because they are the only bike at the moment that is available in reasonable numbers, for not much cash that isn't 20 years old. I love two strokes but there is a good reason we have a fleet of FXRs, i don't have the time and knowledge to build a similar number of strokers for a start.

+10 to that ... different strokes for different folks ... its what makes Buckets so great.

[husaberg]

OK I'll bite.
FXRs are popular not because they are a shit hot race bike but because they are the only bike at the moment that is available in reasonable numbers, for not much cash that isn't 20 years old. I love two strokes but there is a good reason we have a fleet of FXRs, i don't have the time and knowledge to build a similar number of strokers for a start.

Bite err....I wasn't fishing?

Please note the first part of my post.

The simple fact is both 4 strokes and 2 stroke both have their on pro's and con's

Horse's for courses as it were.

Back to the thread. IE 2 stroke tuning.

I love buckets for their diversity engines designs, budgets and style.

[kel]

I also hope it may piss off more than a few FXR's.
As for some reason a few people, are under a delusion that they are some sort of racing engine.

Mate I partnered on a FXR for the 2hr a couple of weeks back, the bike was a well sorted kart track racer (yes a RACER!) that most 2 strokes would struggle to beat, on the short tracks that is.

[gav]

Hmmm, Al Hoogies CBR150 has been dynoed at 27 rwhp, seems to go ok for a standard framed Thailand built commuter bike.
As others have stated the four strokes have hardly started yet.
Anyway if these pesky two strokes get too fast I guess we can always get the four stroke limit bumped up to 200cc? Sounds fair doesnt it?
MotoGP went from 500cc two strokes to 990cc four strokes, MX has 125 2 strokes racing with 250 four strokes ...

[2T Institute]

It will please Fits. I guess, in that it will be liquid cooled.
It will please Wob in that it will provide him something to play with.
It will please me when it makes 35hp at the rear wheel as this is the target. With a wide power spread.
It will please the MNZ in that it will 100% legal.
It will please Dave in that it is a Honda.
It will please Rob in that it will be documented here.


I also hope it may piss off more than a few FXR's.
As for some reason a few people, are under a delusion that they are some sort of racing engine.

And it has a balance shaft.
Will look forward to see what happens with it.

A KH 125 can easily accomodate a water cooled cylinder, ,my own 'top secret' project for the Aussie Nats will be a YZ85 (in TZ125 frame) with a 'mini RSA' pv cylinder