ESE's works engine tuner

[TerraRoot]

There is a current discussion on ekartingnews about EFI 2T http://ekartingnews.com/viewtopic.ph...r=asc&start=75
They have a pic of a CR500. Some guys are creating their own using known fuel distribution curve and neediel/tube graphs as a guide for fuel flow.

thats a great thread, loving some of the info the HGT guys give out.

here another one with the ecotrons:
http://www.scootforum.com/viewtopic....a6cba9c463c4a0
and another with MS:
http://www.125ccsportsbikes.com/foru...pic=63480&st=0

[2T Institute]

Seems the only info HGT gives out is "...........for 31yrs I was a GM engineer..........."

BRC (make Rotax 256 copy kart engines) Riley Will (who contributed to the pitlane.biz RSA thread) spoke the most sense there

The 2002 500cc bikes used 35-36mm carbs with electronic solenoid type power jets.

KTM used a hybrid system where they used an injector to augment the fueling requirements. It was used in their 250cc program, but I'm not 100% sure if they used it in the 125cc bike as well. Probably, but I cannot be certain.

Aprilia was guilty of throwing out what they perfected (carburation)and introducing a totally new concept loaded with technology EFI system. It was an intelligent system that made all the theoretical calculations at light speed..... It was a perfect system....... Too perfect! For years 2 stroke engine development was being done using less than perfect carburetor. This includes rider knowledge, tire construction, and suspension..... The end result was that the riders and machinery (tires) couldn't cope with the instantaneous increase in torque when the throttle was opened while at maximum lean angles.

When I discussed how I was going to do my EFI, their main electronics engineer started clapping..... What I wanted to do (and later did) was to upload a fuel distribution curve similar to a Del'Lorto needle/tube (needle jet) combination and did not let the computer adjust it. I used a TPS, H2O sensor, Air temp sensor, and Hall Sensor for crank angle/rpm. This way I was using what I knew, but getting the benefit of 3 bar of fuel pressure and injector atomization. I had total control and could add fuel to make the fuel curve "imperfect" if need be. I used 2 injectors mounted on the engine side of the throttle valve and I alternated their firing so that I could rev upto 15000 rpm. That way each injector was mislead into thinking it was feeding a 7500 rpm max 4 stroke cylinder. In total I invested $1600 into the total system and had it running pulling load on the dyno in 3 hours.

Riley later says he timed the injector to squirt 10deg before inlet open and finish 10deg after inlet close

[TZ350]

Possible cheepish valve $35 buy now on Trademe (NO or NC??? not sure how they work)

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/moto...-438243286.htm

[TerraRoot]

Seems the only info HGT gives out is "...........for 31yrs I was a GM engineer..........."

i was referring to the info about what sensors were used and that the MAP system of MS does't agree with two strokes very well. the injector timings and mapping it to make it act like a carb, well thats just your own job, i.e. map it right.

i've a sneaking suspicion that the HGT ecu is quite similar to the ecotrons one.

[Strokerhaus]

The other issue is that to do what you are trying to do properly, you seriously need to plot egt against rpm on the dyno..
If you get such a huge difference in power by changing the main, then it was well wrong in the first place.
And yes, an electronic powerjet will add at leat 800 rpm of free power to that graph, if switched correctly with the right jet ratios - blowing Speedpro of the planet, unless of course he does what I told him.

Interesting I've just got a similar rpm gift and a bhp rise when fitting none power jet Gardners to my old 350 TZ. The odd thing is I have long bell mouths on the carbs, which is not normal practice and it looks like I may have a better bottom end to go with it, but work is still in progress.

[SS90]

Possible cheepish valve $35 buy now on Trademe (NO or NC??? not sure how they work)

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/moto...-438243286.htm

That is an automatic enricher for a moped, the two wires allow an internal heater to assist in the melting of the wax (which melts as the engine warms up), closing off the enricher jet, when it cools down (engine and 12v off) the wax solidifies, and allows the spring loaded plunger to push the enricher jet open again.
Been around since about, 1982, 1983 or so.

Not any sort of power jet.

[husaberg]

Interesting I've just got a similar rpm gift and a bhp rise when fitting none power jet Gardners to my old 350 TZ. The odd thing is I have long bell mouths on the carbs, which is not normal practice and it looks like I may have a better bottom end to go with it, but work is still in progress.

I would be interested to see the airflow results for the Gardners on a flow bench.
You may find they they flow better than a std style carb. Would you post a few pictures for the thread.
I had trouble finding decent pictures of then when i posted something about them.

[Grumph]

That is an automatic enricher for a moped,

Not any sort of power jet.

Tell that to the poor bugger trying to stay in front of cars on a frosty ChCh morning......Probably the only thing keeping him alive.

Gardener Carbs - very clean intenally, and because of the flatslide design, very sensitive to air speed.
It wouldn't surprise me if they self - enrichened at WOT.

[wobbly]

The only good pic I could find of Gardner.
With the long bellmouth version I can see why a TZ350 would work well,the correct tuned length for peak at 10,000 is near double that of a stock 38mm Mikuni.

http://kioteegarage.blogspot.com/201...e-history.html

[Strokerhaus]

I would be interested to see the airflow results for the Gardners on a flow bench.
You may find they they flow better than a std style carb. Would you post a few pictures for the thread.
I had trouble finding decent pictures of then when i posted something about them.

I have no airflow data, and once I have worked out how to post a few pictures I will. As was said they are a very clean carb for airflow with a flat slide. They do seem to self adjust for fueling as the air to fuel ratio's compared with the prior Mikuni powerjet reverse slides are similar. Once I have finished the setting up of the carbs I will give you more data, but that will be a few weeks yet.

[TZ350]

Dynos, I look for a flat as torque curve possible with the power roughly a 45deg line upwards hold peak for as long as possible and 45deg down on the over rev. Makes it an easy bike to ride fast. All has to match the gearbox though

Not quite flat and not quite 45 deg but getting there....

125cc Air cooled Rotary Valve with 24mm Carb, 1980 modified Suzuki GP125 commuter bike engine.

[dmcca]

All this talk of PWM solenoids, etc...

Makes me wonder if its possible to do away with the fixed aperture jets all together... run a standard carb setup but instead of a pilot and main run 2 x solenoids (one for each circuit) operated by an ecu which varies PWM signals in response to a wideband input (or pre determined map of rpm vs tps vs temp, etc). Pilot solenoid reaches full duty cycle very early (same as a pilot jet), then main solenoid gradually increases in duty cycle (simulating the opening of the needle) until it also reaches max duty.

Itd be like a variation on the info 2T Institute posted about air correction circuits on RGVs/RSs etc

Essentially just a computer controlled jet size... Would it be a nice halfway measure between a carb and full on efi for a 2 stroke motorcycle?? Im not sure, just an idea.

[wobbly]

It just occurred to me TeeZee that you guys need to feed a free copy of Gadwin printscreen into the dyno computer.
You can save to a file or a printer very easy.

[husaberg]

The only good pic I could find of Gardner.
With the long bellmouth version I can see why a TZ350 would work well,the correct tuned length for peak at 10,000 is near double that of a stock 38mm Mikuni.

http://kioteegarage.blogspot.com/201...e-history.html

I thought i had posted a pic of them but only a brief description TZ has posted a picture of one with a mattchbox float
But here is one with a bolt on Stack.

Bill Swallow or his brother used to use one on a real fast ohv velo.
Also when the classic movement started again i believe he started to manufacture them.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/slrosko/4636268333/

[TZ350]

It just occurred to me TeeZee that you guys need to feed a free copy of Gadwin printscreen into the dyno computer.
You can save to a file or a printer very easy.

Our problem is the dyno computer is very old, floppy disks, Win 3.2 or something and RS232 communication with the dyno, parallel printer port and we didn't get the original software disks with it. $500 USD to become registered with DynoJet and the the cost of an upgrade package, thats all to expensive for us at the moment.