ESE's works engine tuner

**TZ350** · 10th January 2012, 21:52

Originally Posted by nasone32

i have a belt cvt patent with a lot improved efficiency that i would like to show you... won the italian scooter champ this year so it's something already tested extensively)

I too would be very interested in this transmission. please PM me.

**Frits Overmars** · 10th January 2012, 21:57

Originally Posted by F5 Dave

funny, I was thinking about the 24/7 idea last night as I drove home from the dyno having broken a reed.
Anyway it strikes me that if the concept did work (& the only time I've broken reeds the bike runs dreadfully up top), but either way to continue, if the bike did run ok 24/7 then surely the easiest way rather than this complicated reedblock arrangement; would be to make a round port into the back of the cases with the carb on it much like an RSA without the disc & a simple guillotine that closed it off (like a flat thin slide carb that went to the floor).
Then a 2nd pathetic size reedvalve with a 14mm carb with the same arrangement, but feed into the front of the cases out of the way. This could be used to start it, - then a Frankenstein lever pulled [bwahahahaha!

] that opens guillotine 1 & closes 2.

You can't expect the carburation of a reed bike to remain perfect after the reed breaks, Dave; it will probably have a lot of blow-back and therefore a terribly rich mixture. You'd need to find the right combination of crankcase volume (large!), inlet tract diameter and length for a clean 24/7-carburation.
Which complicated reedblock are you talking about? The one with the two hinged reeds coupled by gears that you may have seen in www.pit-lane.biz?
That was the very first prototype, over ten years old now. It was over-engineered all right; just one hinged reed without any gears will do just fine.

What you are suggesting, two carbs, has been tried by a dutch Kreidler tuner: http://kreidler.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=38866 .
He didn't even bother with guillotines or reeds; just the normal piston-ported carb and a second carb connected directly to the crankcase.
In the video the jetting is off and he opens that second throttle way too early but nevertheless the contraption runs....

**2T Institute** · 11th January 2012, 00:10

Frits how do the 2 halves of the homemade FOS cylinder stay together?

**Frits Overmars** · 11th January 2012, 00:23

Originally Posted by 2T Institute

Frits how do the 2 halves of the homemade FOS cylinder stay together?

I assume you are talking about the two pictures of the Rossi-GRM cylinder I posted last week? I left it to them how they wanted to build it and did not discuss details but I guess the parts are simple stacked together and held by the cylinder studs.

**nasone32** · 11th January 2012, 02:04

Thanks Frits, I will send a mail to Your friend later!

TZ350 I have read and answered your message, but i don't have enough posts to send PMs so maybe my reply did not reach your inbox. If this is the case, please send me an email address where I can reply, thanks!

**dinamik2t** · 11th January 2012, 06:07

Frits, You have spent a decade thinking of a good&simple 24/7 system and you have probably concluded to something good.
But I liked the "challenge" of thinking a 24/7 system that incorporates a reed petal opening, plus is as free-open as a plain hole when opened!

Could you explain a little more analytical, why a reed valve would be usefull only during start-up? It would give a few hints more.

I thought about it last night in bed. I imagined a butterfly throttle, after the intake rubber (where reed opening is), that would open via a servo motor on specific RPM. On the butterfly half that moves into the case, there would be a reed petal, just like a reed valve.
It sounds simple and can be tuned in regards to RPM and TPS perhaps.
One problem will be petal stiffness I think, as the small petal length would need a thin reed. And at full closed or when at 90* angle (vertical), the petal would break. If support is used behind it, that would get into the mixture's way when fully open.
Things might be better for the petals if the butterfly has a full closed zero-point at 60* from horizontal.
Care to give me a comment?

**F5 Dave** · 11th January 2012, 08:36

Originally Posted by Frits Overmars

Y. . .
Which complicated reedblock are you talking about? The one with the two hinged reeds coupled by gears that you may have seen in www.pit-lane.biz?
That was the very first prototype, over ten years old now. It was over-engineered all right; just one hinged reed without any gears will do just fine.....

Yes that was the picture in my mind I saw on some other website ages ago & then on Pit-lane so it stuck, though I knew there was a simpler one, but couldn't picture it (with or without a Monster next to it). Thanks for the reply.

**TerraRoot** · 11th January 2012, 09:05

how a bout two fingers that slide into the reed cage and hold the petals open, obviously won't work on vforce reeds and more petals = more fingers.
could simply have the fingers attached by cable to the powervalve, no extra servo, 24/7 during the powerband.

**Frits Overmars** · 11th January 2012, 10:01

Originally Posted by TerraRoot

how about two fingers that slide into the reed cage and hold the petals open, obviously won't work on vforce reeds and more petals = more fingers.
could simply have the fingers attached by cable to the powervalve, no extra servo, 24/7 during the powerband.

That's the general idea, TerraRoot; the 24/7-valve and the exhaust powervalve can be synchronized.
But you do not need a fancy reed cage. As long as the engine is running below the powerband, it is not making power anyway, so the reed does not have to be sophisticated; a simple single reed petal will suffice. Remember, it is there only to start the engine. And instead of a finger to hold the reed open, you can mount the reed on a shaft; that makes swinging it out of the way much easier.
Here is that original picture once more for those of you who haven't seen it yet: over-engineered like I said. One shaft with one petal (and of course no gears) will suffice.

**TerraRoot** · 11th January 2012, 10:55

ah trapped myself there, forgot that it is simpler to do a new design rather then add to an existing design. that what i get for snapping off ideas

this 24/7 idea could prove useful to runner 180's, they have tiny cages meant for a 50cc.

**TZ350** · 11th January 2012, 14:12

Av's race report from the Nationals .....

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**TZ350** · 11th January 2012, 18:48

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Made an adjustable PJ out of a model aero engine carb needle jet for controlling the PJ. Now to get one of those solenoids the Husaburg posted to shut off the PJ for a bit of extra over rev.

Made some progress with the shorter inlet tract and expect to get the lower mid range back again with a bit of fiddling with the carburation.

Just a little bit more and the single exhaust port engine with the RS pipe will be very close to EngMod2T's predicted power output.

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125cc rotary valve with a 24mm carb and air cooled.

Measured 31 rwhp (estimated 34 crank hp) on the dyno tonight, red line is last night before the inlet tract was shortened and the jetting/ignition adjusted.

I have ordered one of Wobblys special kitset "A" Kit Pipes for a Suzuki GP125 ..... so hopefully 1 or 2 more hp and a wider spread of power. Then there is the ATAC idea for better low end.