ESE's works engine tuner

[TZ350]

The triple exhaust and Piranha pipe.

Finally sorted all the little issues and got it together. It has a great little RS(?) muffler, I hope it has the real RS sound when its on full song.

The game plan is to put it up on the dyno, check the compression and if its not crazy high, then load a safe ignition curve and warm it up. Then let it cool right off and torque the head down again before giving it a real run to see whats what.

[kel]

The triple exhaust and Piranha pipe.

Finally sorted all the little issues and got it together. It has a great little RS(?) muffler, I hope it has the real RS sound when its on full song.

The game plan is to put it up on the dyno, check the compression and if its not crazy high, then load a safe ignition curve and warm it up. Then let it cool right off and torque the head down again before giving it a real run to see whats what.

Looking good!
Any chance of extending the stinger to move the muffler further away from the foot peg? That precious test pilot who last punted your bike was seen to slip off the left peg on more than one occasion.

[TZ350]

Looking good! Any chance of extending the stinger to move the muffler further away from the foot peg?

It doesnt have a venturi so the stinger is still part of the equation and we can't extend it, but next time your over we could try and bend it down a bit and see if that works.

[husaberg]

Here we go, a simple disk brake dyno.

Hence the B in the BHP.

why can't we just use a alternator and make something useful like er.....electricity. Rather than just heat.
We could then go all metric and measure the output in K-Watts as well

[TZ350]

Lambretta with MAXIMUM POWER 55 HP on wheel




I have been looking at some of the Scooter dyno runs on YouTube, here is a Lambretta that makes 55hp, I have no idea of its capacity, though its probably more than 125cc.

Most of the vespas I have seen are 18-20ps for 133cc 22-27ps for 175cc and 30-32ps for 210cc.

[wobbly]

Two things I dont get.
Why would you build an engine, put it in the bike, put it on the dyno - THEN check the com.
Doing the cc on the engine is basic task 1A.

Also, the pipe was designed specifically to use a stinger nozzle, it was also designed specifically to use 78* Ex timing.
I know this is ONLY buckets, but how the hell can a pipe I designed for an application that is completely different, and then isnt built as designed,ever going to work properly - it cant and wont.

[Frits Overmars]

Life is hard, Wob.

In the picture below, if the engine is moved still a bit further back, you might be able to fit a straigth trombone pipe between cylinder and front wheel. And who cares about front wheel load; that only affects handling...

Did I mention that horsepower can gain you tenths of seconds and handling will give you whole seconds?

[bucketracer]

Two things I dont get.
Why would you build an engine, put it in the bike, put it on the dyno - THEN check the com.

I think TeeZee probably wants to know the compression pressure for future reference and compare it to other known engines. Also he probably finds it much easier to spin the Beast over using the Dyno's starter motor than trying to pull it over by hand.

As for the stinger and port timing, there is a good chance TeeZee has taken the trouble to check it all out using EngMod2t.

[bucketracer]

In the picture below, if the engine is moved still a bit further back, you might be able to fit a straigth trombone pipe between cylinder and front wheel. And who cares about front wheel load; that only affects handling...

Did I mention that horsepower can gain you tenths of seconds and handling will give you whole seconds?

My guess is TeeZee has checked the weight distribution with rider aboard between the front and back wheels and the engine is placed where he thinks is best for handling, he may have even posted the numbers somewhere.

[bucketracer]

Ok found the pictures.

TeeZee and Chambers put quite a bit of thought into positioning their engines.

I can't think why anyone would be silly enough to think they wouldn't have.

[Frits Overmars]

With the rider in position the weight distribution should be clearly biased towards the front. Judging from the pictures I can hardly imagine this is the case.

[bucketracer]

With the rider in position the weight distribution should be clearly biased towards the front. Judging from the pictures I can hardly imagine this is the case.

Pretty silly to jump to an assumption and poke fun, smarter to have asked.

Ok, they used old bathroom scales, and as I remember it they aimed for 52% on the front wheel with the rider in a semi upright position as they might be when turning into a corner. They also used the Mt Welly Kart scales to check their results, certainly the weight bias right or wrong was not left to chance.

[husaberg]

It's the same everywhere in racing (except dragracing): engine power may give you tenths of seconds; chassis setup will give you whole seconds.

.

One look at Fi5hys Bucket and you can see the empathise on handling and modest easy to ride power is all you need for a winner.

Thanks for your interest.....
In the team there are two Honda RS125 chassis with Suzuki GP125's in them, from memory, all up they weigh about 75kg, the handling is superb and the young guys who ride them swear by them, but they can be cramped to ride.
And there are two Yamaha FZR250 chassis with GP's for those on the team who prefer armchair comfort with their racing. the FZR's at 81 and 93kg weigh about the same as the 90kg stripped down Suzuki GP125's they replaced. One of the FZR's has wire wheels and is 12kg lighter than the other one.
9kg diff in the wheels and another 2-3kg in the smaller disk, calipers, cut down sub frame and lighter chamber. The FZR's look big but are 10+kg lighter than most Suzuki FXR's which are typically 105-110kg.
In running the FZR's we are looking at riding comfort and better handling than the old Suzuki GP chassis could manage. We are getting reasonable hp but figure good handling will get us further now than extra hp will. There are three F5 bikes, two runners and one a work in progress and two of the old Suzuki GP's are going to be kept on as loan bikes when we can get some good standard engines for them.
Only one of the FZR's is on the track at the moment, it took 250 hours of work to get it there. The other is still a little way off yet but getting there. Most of the team and particularity Chambers try to do an hour or two on their projects most nights. I post what I can of what they are up too. Speedpro also runs an FZR with a very quick Honda MB100 motor, he is the one who got us interested in them.

So everyone is right ok.
But
Come on guys i am sure it would be more fun to take this to the chassis thread. http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...4-Race-chassis

i am sure Fits is literally chomping at the bit to answer my musings on the reasoning of the rear disk or twin disk valves. posted back a page.

I am sure some pics of the bikes or engines have been added before a British attempt at a prepackaged Rotax tandem twin TZ beater from the 80's made in both 250 and 350cc.

Lozza will be well aware of this When i was looking for pics his name pops up quite a few times.
One thing i have not picked up on is they had mirrored disks on at least one of the bikes.
I always thought the rear disked Derbi or Aprilia was strictly for packaging?

but was it mainly for a better transfer layout with more symmetry as well?
Possible advantages with the twin disk i can see include a symmetrical flow and the inlets would be smaller so less obtrusive to the transfers.
It should also possibly offer better drive-ability( it does of course fail the KISS test though.)
Frits I think posted a twin disk 50 done in the 70's.





oh to fit the trombone pipe in why not tip the motor forward TZ it has advantages being a disk valve with the side sucker carb.
The gearbox breathing and oiling will need work and the ground clearance might suffer a bit.
and yes the selector will be a bit in the way not as neat as the Rumi which was a reverse cylindered design as well.

There is a 6 speed casette box on TM at the moment
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/List...x?id=470773873
maybe a set of new cases could be carved out to suit fitting the chassis better, they could handle a reverse cylinder a bigger disk better crankcase cooling as well as a 6 speed box?

[TZ350]

.... if the engine is moved still a bit further back, you might be able to fit a straigth trombone pipe between cylinder and front wheel. And who cares about front wheel load; that only affects handling...

.... yes it does look a tad to far back but funnily enough, at the time some people thought we had it to far forward, I can only describe the chassis as "roomy".

[Frits Overmars]

Pretty silly to jump to an assumption .... certainly the weight bias right or wrong was not left to chance.

My silly assumption about engine positions was based on the fact that the weight distribution of the Aprilia RSA turned out to be worse than that of the preceding RSW model because the RSA engine had to be moved further back because of the front-exiting exhaust pipe. So in the top picture the engine already is too far to the rear...