ESE's works engine tuner

[SS90]

Lambretta with MAXIMUM POWER 55 HP on wheel




I have been looking at some of the Scooter dyno runs on YouTube, here is a Lambretta that makes 55hp, I have no idea of its capacity, though its probably more than 125cc.

Most of the vespas I have seen are 18-20ps for 133cc 22-27ps for 175cc and 30-32ps for 210cc.

Keep looking, 125cc (123.67cc to be exact) Vespas have been putting out more than 28PS for at least 5 years.

There are several kits available that you can simply bolt on and achieve between 24 and 28 PS depending on the exhaust you use, and plenty of people are making bespoke cylinders pushing that limit higher in workshops all over Europe

Sometimes Youtube does not have the answers.

[husaberg]

Keep looking, 125cc (123.67cc to be exact) Vespas have been putting out more than 28PS for at least 5 years.

There are several kits available that you can simply bolt on and achieve between 24 and 28 PS depending on the exhaust you use, and plenty of people are making bespoke cylinders pushing that limit higher in workshops all over Europe

Sometimes Youtube does not have the answers.

10 carotactors I guess they had larger carbs than 24mm then.

Anyway,

As a side note, while I appreciate the fact that the peak horsepower number will vary from Dyno to Dyno, and pay little attention to that, in almost 10 years of operating various Dyno's around the place, I have personally never seen more that 17 P.S and 14 N.M (at the rear wheel) on an air cooled disc valve two stroke, running a 24mm carb.

I have probably done over 200 runs on that type of set up. (on various engines)

Number are just numbers though!

Lookig forward to it Teezeetreefiddy!

[SS90]

Hm, oh a typo? Well, that's just proves me wrong doesn't it!
I posted a run about 3 years ago from a run on. 133 cylinder with I think 21 or 22 PS (and 24mm carb, (made by a clever chap in late 2002 if memory serves me correctly) which I indicated that that was the highest power 24mm carbed disc valve engine I had seen.

Limitations of available gear ratios limit several factors in engine design/tuning. It would be interesting for someone in Kiwiland to explore the idea of getting an old 4 speed AX100 to crank out some numbers. Must be plenty of those around considering the fact that most of us have up because of the 4 speed gear box!

I also wonder if the Suzuki GP100 has a lower primary drive ratio that the GP125? And, if so, are they interchangeable? This could sort out some of those big gaps between upchanges (Oh and alter you power output on the dyno too)

[Frits Overmars]

Hm, oh a typo? ....I also wonder if the Suzuki GP100 has a lower primary drive ratio that the GP125? And, if so, are they interchangeable? This could sort out some of those big gaps between upchanges.

I do hope that is a typo. You can't be serious, altering gear box steps by changing the primary ratio .

[SS90]

I do hope that is a typo. You can't be serious, altering gear box steps by changing the primary ratio .

Not so much a typo, but rather an over simplification.
Shorten the primary drive ratio to alter the gearbox speed, in the situation this engine is in (5 speed commuter Style ratio) this would be an obvious advantage.
Assuming that a GP100 1) has a lower ratio and 2) is compatible.

[bucketracer]

Keep looking, 125cc (123.67cc to be exact) Vespas have been putting out more than 28PS for at least 5 years.

Boys being Boys if anyone actually had a 28ps Vespa you can bet it would be posted on YouTube for his mates to admire.

It would be interesting to see a vid if anyone can find one.

[SS90]

Boys being Boys if anyone actually had a 28ps Vespa you can bet it would be posted on YouTube for his mates to admire.

It would be interesting to see a vid if anyone can find one.

Has it ever occurred to you that YouTube doesn't have the ability to measure engine power output?

[Haufen]

Boys being Boys if anyone actually had a 28ps Vespa you can bet it would be posted on YouTube for his mates to admire.

It would be interesting to see a vid if anyone can find one.

http://www.youtube.com/user/gp1tuningparts

These engines seem to be slightly larger in engine displacement than 125cc, but not by much. 32 hp out of 125cc seems feasible.

[twotempi]

There seems to be an old myth that if you change the primary gear ratio it somehow closes up the gearbox ratios.

As Fritz exclaimed this is definitely a myth.

What happens is that you spin the clutch and gearbox shafts at a different speed , which you then have to allow for by altering the final drive ratio.

However there may be benefits by spinning the clutch faster and thereby reducing the torque loading on the clutch if this component is marginal. BUT you may get bigger internal power loses in the gearbox by churning up the oil more.

[SS90]

There seems to be an old myth that if you change the primary gear ratio it somehow closes up the gearbox ratios.

As Fritz exclaimed this is definitely a myth.

I never claimed that.I said that changing the primary ratio might "sort out" the gaps between up changes.

There doesn't seem like many (any) other options for gear ratios in a GP 125.
Unless someone can point us to a "WikiHow" page on making your own gearbox?

[Yow Ling]

I never claimed that.I said that changing the primary ratio might "sort out" the gaps between up changes.

There doesn't seem like many (any) other options for gear ratios in a GP 125.
Unless someone can point us to a "WikiHow" page on making your own gearbox?

Lucky for us You tube has the how to on this one
about 3 minutes into this video Gabriel Gnani is forging a blank for a new gear

Easy as bro !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-2rJ...feature=relmfu

[SS90]

Lucky for us You tube has the how to on this one
about 3 minutes into this video Gabriel Gnani is forging a blank for a new gear

Easy as bro !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-2rJ...feature=relmfu

I just missed one bit, was that 500 degrees or 550 degrees?

[bucketracer]

I also wonder if the Suzuki GP100 has a lower primary drive ratio that the GP125? And, if so, are they interchangeable? This could sort out some of those big gaps between upchanges (Oh and alter you power output on the dyno too)

I would be interested in seeing the maths that support your assertion that a change in the primary drive ratio alters the power output on the dyno.



A graph you posted of a multi gear run.

Three different overall gear ratios and pretty much the same power output from each.

Changing the primary gear ratio affects the overall gear ratio just like changing gears does. But as we can see from the graph there is no real change in rear wheel hp.

http://www.youtube.com/user/gp1tuningparts
These engines seem to be slightly larger in engine displacement than 125cc, but not by much. 32 hp out of 125cc seems feasible.

154ccm FALC 60x54, Keihin Airstriker 38, Vespatronic, Exhaust: Falc 2011
Extreme 36,3HP an over 27 Nm !!

Yes good find, I knew there had to be some good video clips around. But 154cc is 23% bigger than TeeZeez 125 and the 38mm Airstriker is a bit bigger than the 24 TeeZee is allowed to run.

Which makes TeeZee's 31ps effort from a 1970's cylinder look not too shabby by todays tuning standards in Europe.

It would still be interesting to see something closer to TeeZee's rotary valve 125cc air cooled with a 24mm carb if possible.

[wobbly]

Interested as to why these guys even think that getting an EXTREME 36 Hp from a 150cc special cylinder with a 38mm carb
is worthy of raving about and videoing on U tube.
Take a MX based TM125 cylinder that makes more than that as a 125 and drop in a 60mm piston,port and pipe it with good attention to detail
and it makes over 50 RWHp on a Dynojet twin roller with load control, on UNLEADED pump gas.
Now get excited, but no im not putting it on here nor U Tube.

[Haufen]

Interested as to why these guys even think that getting an EXTREME 36 Hp from a 150cc special cylinder with a 38mm carb
is worthy of raving about and videoing on U tube.
Take a MX based TM125 cylinder that makes more than that as a 125 and drop in a 60mm piston,port and pipe it with good attention to detail
and it makes over 50 RWHp on a Dynojet twin roller with load control, on UNLEADED pump gas.
Now get excited, but no im not putting it on here nor U Tube.

That's true of course. But as these cylinders are limited by the standard stud pattern and air cooling those results (RWHp+unleaded pump gas) are not that bad.

I am not familiar with the bucket regulations. Can you pick any cylinder you want as long as you stay within the 100/125 cc displacement limit?