ESE's works engine tuner

[husaberg]

Erm, your second quote maybe?

More power? I cant see how that is needed, given that from what I can ascertain, the winning bikes have just over 22 HP or so, and they are all making that power below 11,000 RPM (is there anyone with a power graph of the winning bikes?)

a 125 2 stroke can easily make that type of power, it is done every day.

Similar power, but were they a similar engine to TeeZee's high 20's to 30+ hp 125cc rotary valve air cooled engines running a 24mm carb.



Attachment 263379

ok, I am confused ....... please help us out here.

I would have thought it was pretty obvious if you work in the industry see attached

But then again, you have Never worked in the industry....

That will be the problem. Maybe it also didn't have a Turbo like those pre 1956 2 strokes

I said ( possibly 1956, and issued a rider that I was not sure of the date), I would now go to say that it was "mid 60's" when several European manufacturers had Compressor's on 2 strokes.... Both driven of exhaust gas, or another power source.

Considering " exhaust gas powered turbines" where winning the Indy 500 in the early sixties, and running since before then) I fail to understand why it is so hard to accept that many factories where able to get working
examples of their own.....

I believe the badges are made in Vietnam.

I'll make a deal..... If Teezee finishes his Plenum....and posts PRINTED dyno graphs, as well as a video of the runs, I will post 5 pictures of an Austrian exhaust gas propelled turbine boosted engine and 3 pictures of a German exhaust gas propelled turbine boosted engine,( I am starting to see why the termsTURBO and SUPERCHARGE where brought into use in the English Vernacular ) before 1966.
.

[bucketracer]

TeeZee has already talked about sleeves, use Thread Tools and View Images to see them.

Anyone who thinks they can win races against the current crop of 20-23 hp FXRs with a low 20's hp 2-stroke is likely to be dissapointed.

[SS90]

TeeZee has already talked about sleeves, use Thread Tools and View Images to see them.

Anyone who thinks they can win races against the current crop of 20-23 hp FXRs with a low 20's hp 2-stroke is likely to be dissapointed.

Why? Has anyone actually tried?

41 hp 125 strokers used to whip 75hp 4 strokes all day long in formula 3, and there are plenty of 125 GP chassis that have found their way into buckets (daves fiddy is a perfect example), and in the grand scheme of things, that has bugger all power. It has won plenty against bigger more powerful engines. Darren Gosper had a fast one back in the day too (but if I remember right, a standard RG chassis)

[crazy man]

Why? Has anyone actually tried?

41 hp 125 strokers used to whip 75hp 4 strokes all day long in formula 3, and there are plenty of 125 GP chassis that have found their way into buckets (daves fiddy is a perfect example), and in the grand scheme of things, that has bugger all power. It has won plenty against bigger more powerful engines. Darren Gosper had a fast one back in the day too (but if I remember right, a standard RG chassis)

who had these 75 hp f3 bikes? but agree 22-24 hp 2 stroke with a good bike set up and rider is all it needs to win gp's

[wobbly]

Some are forgetting NoMates RGV100/RS125 that had over 28 Hp some 7 years ago.
It won 3 straight bucket titles and was basically unbeatable - THEN became unreliable due to uncorrected wear on the bridge.
Anyone who was in the way got blasted on any short straight, or got ridden over the top of.
Fast 2T, fast chassis, maniac rider - no one got close unless he crashed.
The cylinder liner has been plated now, and it runs all day just fine - the rider is busy doing other stuff so it hasnt been out for some time.

SpeedPros new setup is for a few customers, not his own use - and I am doing the pipe layout to suit 192* and 12,000,so will be interesting to see how a low
20s 2T goes with good handling and riders.

[SS90]

who had these 75 hp f3 bikes? but agree 22-24 hp 2 stroke with a good bike set up and rider is all it needs to win gp's

Terry Fitzgerald had mid 70s (GsxR400) Andy Bolwell, Bredan Gere and John Lowther (all ZXR400's) had something similar, Chis Huddlestone had 68 (ZXR 400) and Adrian Main had 71hp (GSxR400)

But yea, as I am sure you are aware, Steve Ward had the measure of them all (most of the time), as did Glenn Hayward (even on his NX4 framed fiddler special) Jason Easton, Cam Horgan and quite a few others.

That was after Methanol was banned (boo), and before the 450 rule came in, where 80hp was the number for a big bore 400.

[Haufen]

None of these are new (DRT was making crank gear "conversions" many years ago), the bottom line is that no matter which way you shuffle the cards, there are only 4 gears to play with (making layshafts is an expensive process, by any ones standards, although I have recently seen cheaper ones on offer)
5 speed conversions? I am yet to see one that can last the distance. The restriction of gear ratios is a constant thorn in your side, but it does force you to create engines with wide power spreads, which is always nice.

This is getting exhausting. At first you mention a lack of primary gear ratios, then you tell me you knew all that. Same with the gear ratios. Now you complain about having only 4 gears. Next thing will be the 10 inch scooter wheels and tires? I don't get it - and I don't have to.

Fact is:

nowadays, everyone is able to go way faster on a Vespa than reasonable without running into problems concerning the number of gears, the availability of primary gear ratios, the spread between each of the 4 gears or the durability of the gearbox.

[SS90]

Some are forgetting NoMates RGV100/RS125 that had over 28 Hp some 7 years ago.
It won 3 straight bucket titles and was basically unbeatable - THEN became unreliable due to uncorrected wear on the bridge.


SpeedPros new setup is for a few customers, not his own use - and I am doing the pipe layout to suit 192* and 12,000,so will be interesting to see how a low
20s 2T goes with good handling and riders.

Im not forgetting it, far from it.

I recon, with the right pipe, frame and rider, based on what I am told, and see written here in regards to what bikes are winning, a mid 20's stroker in an RS chassis would walk away with it (and perhaps squash silly rumors that tuned 2 strokes are unreliable)

[SS90]

This is getting exhausting. At first you mention a lack of primary gear ratios, then you tell me you knew all that. Same with the gear ratios. Now you complain about having only 4 gears. Next thing will be the 10 inch scooter wheels and tires? I don't get it - and I don't have to.

Fact is:

nowadays, everyone is able to go way faster on a Vespa than reasonable without running into problems concerning the number of gears, the availability of primary gear ratios, the spread between each of the 4 gears or the durability of the gearbox.

Calm down schatzi!

I build small frames for a living.

Have you had the opportunity of tuning a 2 stroke with more than 4 available ratios? No matter how you shuffle the cards, that, and than alone, is what holds you back.

Even at Stokach, where blech roller quarter miles reach frightening speeds, or the once a year 2 laps of the Nurburgring, where the limit is pushed further still, if these engines had more available gear ratios, then we would be able to build engines with more power (just over a narrower RPm range)

[richban]

Some are forgetting NoMates RGV100/RS125 that had over 28 Hp some 7 years ago.
It won 3 straight bucket titles and was basically unbeatable - THEN became unreliable due to uncorrected wear on the bridge.
Anyone who was in the way got blasted on any short straight, or got ridden over the top of.
Fast 2T, fast chassis, maniac rider - no one got close unless he crashed.
The cylinder liner has been plated now, and it runs all day just fine - the rider is busy doing other stuff so it hasnt been out for some time.

SpeedPros new setup is for a few customers, not his own use - and I am doing the pipe layout to suit 192* and 12,000,so will be interesting to see how a low
20s 2T goes with good handling and riders.

Blah blah blah, back in the day so and so whet fast and won a race. This is 2012 and for the last 4 years the GPs and BOB have been dominated by guys riding heavy 4 stroke commuter bikes.

[bucketracer]

I also wonder if the Suzuki GP100 has a lower primary drive ratio that the GP125? And, if so, are they interchangeable? This could sort out some of those big gaps between upchanges (Oh and alter your power output on the dyno too)

I would be interested in seeing the maths that support your assertion that a change in the primary drive ratio alters the power output on the dyno.

Attachment 263363

A graph you posted of a multi gear run.

Three different overall gear ratios and pretty much the same power output from each.

Changing the primary gear ratio affects the overall gear ratio just like changing gears does. But as we can see from the graph there is no real change in rear wheel hp.

Maybe you missed it when I first asked you, but I was hoping someone who knows so much could explain their claim in terms that make sense.

[SS90]

Blah blah blah, back in the day so and so whet fast and won a race. This is 2012 and for the last 4 years the GPs and BOB have been dominated by guys riding heavy 4 stroke commuter bikes.

Yea, that's so true, is it because they are easy to ride fast compared to a peaky 2 stroke?

I had well and truly expected a two stroke to have been winning again by now, but as Wobbly pointed out, some people just aren't playing just now, and it's just about "the best of the current bunch"

[bucketracer]

This is getting exhausting. At first you mention a lack of primary gear ratios, then you tell me you knew all that. Same with the gear ratios. Now you complain about having only 4 gears. Next thing will be the 10 inch scooter wheels and tires? I don't get it - and I don't have to.

Hi Haufen, welcome to the net where some posters substitute endless talk and bragardo for real substance and become snide if you chalange them, get that every where I expect, like pubs, and clubs where there is always a big noting talker.

TeeZees 30hp engine makes 20+hp at 10500rpm.

TeeZee diarys his work whatever the result, good and bad, if anyone doesn't wan't to build a 30hp Bucket then don't would be his opinion.

Some of the FXR's lining up on the grid make a bit more than 20hp.

And anyone wanting to set the world on fire with a 20-22hp 2-Stroke are more than welcome to post their progress and results here.

[richban]

Yea, that's so true, is it because they are easy to ride fast compared to a peaky 2 stroke?

Put the same people on a 2 stroke and the same result me thinks.

Best of current crop is faster than the old dogs for sure. Young hard charging kids that can peddle a 600 fast as well as a bucket are the ones to watch out for. Us old dogs are getting put out to pasture.

[SS90]

Put the same people on a 2 stroke and the same result me thinks.

Best of current crop is faster than the old dogs for sure. Young hard charging kids that can peddle a 600 fast as well as a bucket are the ones to watch out for. Us old dogs are getting put out to pasture.

How relaible are the 4 strokes that do all the winning, I mean how many hours before a front running engine needs valves? (a fast ZXR400 needed valves and shells every season, and they are not cheap I can assure you.)

A low revving (in context) 2 stroke should be able able to do a season on nothing more than a couple pistons and a few more rings I recon, they do in the European geared scooter racing anyway, it's only the high revving 30 plus horsepower engines that need cranks halfway through...