ESE's works engine tuner

[F5 Dave]

Glenn, you need to splash out some money & buy Kevin Camerons TDC books. Whatever one might think of his take on technical matters, when you bear in mind when they were written, I think they were very good, but more so interesting & entertaining to read. He visited a few small manufacturers back in the day & spoke with people like Jorg.

[wobbly]

The 400 F3 is one of 3 I am building for the new Superlight class here.
Up to 400cc multicylinder two strokes are allowed with road based cases ( to stop full house 250GP bike engines).
Mine are RS250 Aprilia Cup chassis with bored/stroked RZ350 Banshee cases as these are still available new.
As in the video I posted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ9EUBRHQ3U
They use a 58mm stroked cank - CPI Cheetah cylinder at 66mm bore with special Wossner single ring Blaster pistons,servo powervalve,39mm FCR carbs,Ignitech,straight cut
primarys,Hinson heavy clutch,Nova close ratio box.
Chassis has Mupo or Ohlins inserts in HRC RS250 NXA forks with Brembos - one has 255 discs with 1098 Ducati radials on CNC adapters made by the same method as above.etc.

What part of the post needs translation??

[twotempi]

Hi Wobbly,

Has MNZ changed the rules for F3 ??

Want to see your 400 F3 two-strokes on the track against the SV650's - should be interesting.

Who are riding them ??

cheers

[2T Institute]

Yes . But in your defence you could say that his name was misspelled in the article. It's not Jorg Moller but Jörg Möller.

No umlaut's down here Frits, they all fall off when you cross the equator. Speaking of fuel do you have the United `100 octane fuel over there?

[wobbly]

Yes the F3 class was changed to become Superlight.
There has been an ongoing argument re the rules as someone changed purposely one word, and it bent the whole intent of the class.
This would have meant having potentially 100Hp in a RZ chassis - yea sure thats safe.
The idea was to allow the use of any chassis available, but restrict engines to those based on a road bike.
This rule has finally been edited, but in the end it states that the Commissioner has the final say on elegiblity, and he is the one that has been pushing to reword the document as it was originally intended.
The 400 F3 with around 100Hp and 100Kg gives any SV650 no chance in hell - death to the diesels.

[dinamik2t]

Wob, I wonder, could you make an estimation of how the resources, that allow (or forbid) someone to build a top RPM/HP-14barBMEP two stroke in every race category, split in a total of 100%?
I take it the major ones are know-how, materials-technics, durability-service_cost, general build_cost (parts etc).

I read again and I know am not being very clear about my question. You talk about a 400cc engine with 'only' 100hp. Since you have the know-how to build the 400cc with, say, 140hp, which are the limiting factors?
E.g. 20% lack of material/construction technics quality, 30% enormous parts costs, 40% high wear rate and so on.
How this would be correlated with "normal" race teams around the world (roadrace, dragster, karting etc)?

[F5 Dave]

I'll take a punt at that. Starting from road orientated cases means a twin cylinder with large bore 200cc cylinders with reedblocks on the barrels. Within that framework and the requirement to build a flexible engine to race on tight NZ tracks at a price a privateer can afford, (read readily available aftermarket produced parts). - heck this will be ample anyway & I'm looking forward to seeing them in action

[wobbly]

The 400cc twin is a good example to use.
This engine is RZ/Banshee based, that started life initially as the R5 - 250.
Thus it has 102mm bore centres that severely limits power via transfer duct shape and size.
The Cheetah version of the cylinder allows use of the powervalve, so that enabled much wilder tuning to be used without killing the mid range performance.
So I have designed every part of the engine to make an achievable 12 Bar BMEP at 11,000.
The BMEP is limited by the case layout, the rpm by the stroke length and the piston weight ( though very light for a 66mm bore ).
This potentially equates to around 120 Hp crank,and needs every trick I know to make happen within the constraints above.
I managed to squeeze in fat 132mm pipes,that were developed for the fastest 500 quad up Pikes last year,so again its knowledge that will be the winning factor in this case.
Money doesnt enter this equation, as it simply isnt possible to spend more to go faster, as nothing else is better nor available.
The bikes will have the best tyres available,plus Marchesini wheels.The best SV650 is using BST carbons, but is still a heavy pig in comparison.
With unlimited budget you could go CNC cases, but then they would not be road based, and illegal.
Unlike Buckets here, where if someone had the no brains/ton of money syndrome, I could CAD up a cylinder and have 40 Hp and a 4000 rpm band from a 100cc watercooled - easy.

PS - the Honda 500V factory twin made 140 crank at 10500, this is 12 Bar also - this bmep limited by the revs with the long 68 stroke, so again the power is regulated by the setups limitations.

[twotempi]

Geez - You almost feel sorry for the four-strokes. Especially guys who have built 450cc R6's.

On the other hand maybe not.

[TZ350]

Unlike Buckets here, where if someone had the no brains/ton of money syndrome,

Hmmm I am more familiar with having the no brains and no money syndrome myself.



Using the latest of tool technology, a carpenters hammer and butter knife to work my magic I am getting 34 or there abouts at the crank.



In porting the cylinder the bridge between the secondary transfer and boost port had been made to narrow and the end of the ring was catching in the port window. So now the ring locating peg needs shifting so the ring gap can run up the boost port. I will be carefull to leave this area wider on future cylinders.



The first trick is to remove the old peg, I did this by filling it down. I got a very thin file and ground the teeth from the sides of it and made a slight radius along the sides so the teeth on the edge of the file would not damage the sides of the ring land.

Its important to take care of the ring land because the lower face and the underside of the ring are critical sealing surfaces.



A piece of 1.5mm SS welding wire was hammered in place and secured in the early TZ style. With the sharp end of the pin bent down in the hole the pin is quite secure and unlikely to come out.



So far the glue has stayed in place.



The extra holes on the sides are for oiling the cylinder area between the transfers and exhaust port.

[husaberg]

Unlike Buckets here, where if someone had the no brains/ton of money syndrome, I could CAD up a cylinder and have 40 Hp and a 4000 rpm band from a 100cc watercooled - easy.

Hey i have no brain. wheres my 40hp
Can't we do that with Honda cylinders
Nah happy with 25. That was Neils Magic number wasn't it.


I was kind of hoping someone fluent in Eurospeak could tall us a Bit about Jorg. (don't know how to do the annotation for the pronunciation sorry Frits)

All the stuff i could find about him was in Eurospeak scans.

Glenn, you need to splash out some money & buy Kevin Camerons TDC books. Whatever one might think of his take on technical matters, when you bear in mind when they were written, I think they were very good, but more so interesting & entertaining to read. He visited a few small manufacturers back in the day & spoke with people like Jorg.

Scan a bit for us would you. I enjoy his style not unlike ...kind of a Dave Barry style i guess.

[ESE BULL SHIT]

The 400cc twin is a good example to use.
This engine is RZ/Banshee based, that started life initially as the R5 - 250.
Thus it has 102mm bore centres that severely limits power via transfer duct shape and size.
The Cheetah version of the cylinder allows use of the powervalve, so that enabled much wilder tuning to be used without killing the mid range performance.
So I have designed every part of the engine to make an achievable 12 Bar BMEP at 11,000.
The BMEP is limited by the case layout, the rpm by the stroke length and the piston weight ( though very light for a 66mm bore ).
This potentially equates to around 120 Hp crank,and needs every trick I know to make happen within the constraints above.
I managed to squeeze in fat 132mm pipes,that were developed for the fastest 500 quad up Pikes last year,so again its knowledge that will be the winning factor in this case.
Money doesnt enter this equation, as it simply isnt possible to spend more to go faster, as nothing else is better nor available.
The bikes will have the best tyres available,plus Marchesini wheels.The best SV650 is using BST carbons, but is still a heavy pig in comparison.
With unlimited budget you could go CNC cases, but then they would not be road based, and illegal.
Unlike Buckets here, where if someone had the no brains/ton of money syndrome, I could CAD up a cylinder and have 40 Hp and a 4000 rpm band from a 100cc watercooled - easy.

PS - the Honda 500V factory twin made 140 crank at 10500, this is 12 Bar also - this bmep limited by the revs with the long 68 stroke, so again the power is regulated by the setups limitations.

[TZ350]

......... what???? where did that come from!!

[Buddha#81:Me]

......... what???? where did that come from!!

from the gutters of KB......looks like ESE and Wob has a fan......

[speedpro]

"ESE BULL SHIT has not made any friends yet".

Hard to believe