ESE's works engine tuner

[ief]

I get that wob, I was merely wondering if I got the relationship right.

But perhaps the train of thought is wrong all together and that is kind of what you are saying I take it



edit: for arguments sake I could say that it was all perfect except it needed the bigger cv or the bigger reed/ carb and the latter isn't that far fledged (and if needed it wasn't an RD/RZ )

edit2: running clears the head so they say...hmmm, dunno 'bout that but had another go at it and was thinking it should probably be the other way around i.e. not shortning the diff but if anything short the header and thus making the diff longer to give the desired max depression wob earlier refered to... (?)

Ok, i'll hide under my rock for a while again and go and read and puzzle a little more

[wobbly]

Diffuser positioning is a very hard variable to pin down,but experience has shown that moving the steep part of the flare closer to the header
helps to pump up the power higher in the rev range.
Up to a point though.
Early versions of Aprilia pipes had the steep cone connected directly to the header.
But later ( more powerful ) versions had a short additional section that pushed the steep cone further out, but increased its angle.
This gave a deeper depression closer to BDC, even though it started later.
The other idea that works well also for many designs is the use of a shallow,short,end diffuser.
This increases the main diffuser angle again, and also increases the belly volume.

You have to be careful though with this clever stuff when dealing with crap transfer ducts.
Very effective and well timed diffuser action, can easily create so much depression around BDC, that the compromised transfers cant keep control
over the scavenging stream integrity.
Alot of the fresh charge disappears out the pipe, without clearing out the remnant exhaust residuals.
Fat pipes dont work on things like RDs - even if you could fit them in.

[ief]

Funny

[Frits Overmars]

Kawasakiputt...

[SwePatrick]

Just thought i´d share with you.
First startup of mine 136cc Honda MB5,
Ignition just on 'base setting'
Carburator from an another 125cc offroadbike. haven´t even touched the airnozzle, totally unadjusted.
Nothing is good so to speak..

but.. the engine started on first kick.
I have no cooling at the point so i just let it run out of fuel in the carb, i´m saying 'oppss no fuel' at the end.

[FastFred]

Am I the only one who cant see SwePatrics video clip. I can see the space where its meant to be but not the image or any way to get it started.

[F5 Dave]

Not even on Farcebook & never intend to be.

[TZ350]

And as far as rules go, the official word from the MNZ Road Race commissioner is it was the INTENT of the rules ... and they also suggested that the Bucket community needs to be self policing

Subject: Re: MNZ rule clarification or rule change required
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 23:09:19 +1300

Hi again Gavin

The rule reads pretty clearly from where I'm looking - the use of competition engines and gearboxes is specifically disallowed ....... the ORIGINAL wording from 25 odd years ago is probably better, but what we have now is fine.

As one who was building and racing buckets from the first day they escaped the Airforce, I can tell you the intent of the original rules was to encourage the building of performance, not simply the buying of horsepower in the guise of factory race parts. So the rules specifically excluded the use of these .... and there was no such thing as RS125 framed MB100 cylindered MB50's either. But centre-hub steered G4TR's with watercooled RG cylinders grafted on were rightly applauded. Homemade alloy monocoques with VT250 headed CB125 engines were cool, and LEGAL

The Bucket community needs to be self-policing to an extent - if people are building bikes with illegal parts, suggest you do something about it by putting pressure on the guilty parties yourselves

Hope this helps ??????

Cheers
Peter R

This is the bit I like .... "encourage the building of performance". which could be in the engine, frame or handling.

""As one who was building and racing buckets from the first day they escaped the Airforce, I can tell you the intent of the original rules was to encourage the building of performance, not simply the buying of horsepower in the guise of factory race parts. So the rules specifically excluded the use of these ....""

Building Performance, this is what I love about Buckets, and its affordable enough that anyone can try their hand at engine-chasis-handling tuning in whatever way takes their fancy.

[Frits Overmars]

Building Performance, this is what I love about Buckets, and its affordable enough that anyone can try their hand at engine-chasis-handling tuning in whatever way takes their fancy.

That is the way it should be. The challenge for the rulemaker is in giving everybody a free hand while keeping the cost down.

I have spent half my life looking for loopholes in rulebooks. Now I make them (the rulebooks, that is; not the loopholes, hopefully).
There is no such thing as 'the intent of the rules'. Either something is written down, or it isn't. It is the responsibility of the rulemaker to put his intentions into unambiguous writing. If afterwards he starts talking about 'the intentions' he has not done a good job and the other party should get the benefit of the doubt.
And only when safety is involved, should a rule be changed before the end of the season (just my 2 euro-cents).

[Ocean1]

I have spent half my life looking for loopholes in rulebooks.

I've noticed that very good riders / drivers often complain about dodgy technical shenanigans, they reckon skill alone should dictate who wins.


Which demonstrates a surprising lack of comprehension about exactly what it is that they're piloting. And denies the technically inclined the chance to demonstrate skill of a different sort...




Signed: A Techie.

[SwePatrick]

Am I the only one who cant see SwePatrics video clip. I can see the space where its meant to be but not the image or any way to get it started.

Maybe now?
It was set to 'restricted', now it´s public.

[Grumph]

That is the way it should be. The challenge for the rulemaker is in giving everybody a free hand while keeping the cost down.

I have spent half my life looking for loopholes in rulebooks. Now I make them (the rulebooks, that is; not the loopholes, hopefully).
There is no such thing as 'the intent of the rules'. Either something is written down, or it isn't. It is the responsibility of the rulemaker to put his intentions into unambiguous writing. If afterwards he starts talking about 'the intentions' he has not done a good job and the other party should get the benefit of the doubt.
And only when safety is involved, should a rule be changed before the end of the season (just my 2 euro-cents).

Dead right Frits - couldn't have put it better myself. In NZ there's one further factor too - when classes evolve as they must do, we have to try and not obsolete too much of the existing machinery. With a small population base - and by world standards a small number of race bikes here, we must try and keep as many of them active as possible.

[Brian d marge]

That is the way it should be. The challenge for the rulemaker is in giving everybody a free hand while keeping the cost down.

I have spent half my life looking for loopholes in rulebooks. Now I make them (the rulebooks, that is; not the loopholes, hopefully).
There is no such thing as 'the intent of the rules'. Either something is written down, or it isn't. It is the responsibility of the rulemaker to put his intentions into unambiguous writing. If afterwards he starts talking about 'the intentions' he has not done a good job and the other party should get the benefit of the doubt.
And only when safety is involved, should a rule be changed before the end of the season (just my 2 euro-cents).

oh its YOU .....my arch nemisis Moriaty ..... be afraid , very afraid I will "bend " those rules ....

Stephen

[ief]

Diffuser positioning is a very hard variable to pin down,but experience has shown that moving the steep part of the flare closer to the header
helps to pump up the power higher in the rev range.
Up to a point though.
Early versions of Aprilia pipes had the steep cone connected directly to the header.
But later ( more powerful ) versions had a short additional section that pushed the steep cone further out, but increased its angle.
This gave a deeper depression closer to BDC, even though it started later.
The other idea that works well also for many designs is the use of a shallow,short,end diffuser.
This increases the main diffuser angle again, and also increases the belly volume.

You have to be careful though with this clever stuff when dealing with crap transfer ducts.
Very effective and well timed diffuser action, can easily create so much depression around BDC, that the compromised transfers cant keep control
over the scavenging stream integrity.
Alot of the fresh charge disappears out the pipe, without clearing out the remnant exhaust residuals.
Fat pipes dont work on things like RDs - even if you could fit them in.

And tnx again Wob, you've given me enough stuff to contemplate over for months (years? )

I didn't want to do this but well, there's this guy on a rd forum who I'm helping out with this but it is more of the blind helping the cripple I'm afraid.

So, this is what I came up for him, incorperating Wob's latest comments (not followed to the letter but close enough I hope) It doesn't have to be the top pipe we all are looking for but if it will be just a decent pipe for a stock bike, fit enough to go to the trouble of building it with a decent chance of working I'd be more than happy.

L     305  210  148   74    73   223    
D   38   52   79   110   110   95   23

ps: I'll tell him to fine tune the mid and the stinger...

[ief]

yihaa, stoked is what I am, someone over there was friendly enough to run it in engmod and although that's not the real world i thought it looked pretty good, be it, it might need some help in the 8k region. Perhaps I'm getting a bit over excited but hey, first effort, not to shabby I think.

Couldn't have done it without your helping clues Wob!